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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Kissing newborns on the face

106 replies

AWholeNewWorls · 17/02/2023 20:52

Is it wrong to think only mum and dad should be allowed to kiss newborns? I was advised in one of my NCT classes that visitors should refrain from kissing baby on the face and should wash their hands before holding baby.

I told my mum this and she scoffed and said I shouldn't be "one of those mums" and it will make the baby weird if I mollycoddle like that. She said she raised me and my siblings without any of us catching anything bad etc. and we were all visited by lots of visitors (I have a fairly large and close knit extended family). I am expecting my first DC in about 4 weeks now and nervous about how to politely assert myself when it comes to conflicting views with my mum/MIL.

OP posts:
Zippidydoda · 18/02/2023 08:31

I think whether or not grandparents should kiss the baby on the face is kind of irrelevant. I think the more important issue is you being able to tell your mum a boundary and for her to respect and stick to it.

Sounds like your mum is one to push boundaries and you are not someone who finds being assertive particularly easy.

If I were you I work hard, and ask DP to support you, to enforce the no kissing boundary with you mum…and any other issues that come up over the next few weeks. If not she’ll be stepping all over your boundaries with the child and you’ll be on here in a year asking what you should do about your mum giving your 1 yr old coke when you told her not to.

ChubbyMorticia · 18/02/2023 08:40

Neither your mother nor MIL had a baby during a pandemic. The rules have changed.

No kiss is worth a baby’s health. It is perfectly possible to love and show affection without putting your lips on an infant.

Anyone who puts their want to kiss an infant over the very real risks to the child’s health is selfish, imo. Baby comes first.

No child has ever ended up in the hospital because Grandma wasn’t allowed to kiss them. But babies HAVE died because of herpes, strep, RSV and Covid.

Untitledsquatboulder · 18/02/2023 08:50

Bloopsie · 18/02/2023 05:56

No one should be kissing newborns face, strep b, heroes etc can be fatal to so little babies.

This is such a sad and fucked up sentiment. Its like we need to generate things to be terrified about.

Scottishskifun · 18/02/2023 09:02

Katypp · 18/02/2023 07:46

Oh my goodness. What a way to start a grandparent relationship off. Do you not realise that there are the child's grandparents, your or you partner's parents. How utterly rude. Why do people think having a baby gives them the right to behave like this, dictating in this obnoxious way in the mistaken belief they are advocating for their baby. Don't you want your child to have a relationship with its grandparents?

Doesn't matter if it comes across as rude or they are the child's grandparents. Everyone finds their own way to parent and family members respecting the boundaries that the PARENTS of the child/baby. If they cannot or will not do that from the beginning to keep a baby safe from potentially life threatening illnesses then no they don't deserve a relationship simple as. It's a privilege not a right.

StampOnTheGround · 18/02/2023 09:04

Grandparents and everyone are banned from kissing baby on the face, it's not worth the risk. There are many other ways to show affection than people slobbering all over his face.

JenniferBarkley · 18/02/2023 09:20

My youngest is only 2 and was born in summer 2020 and we were never told this.

Honestly can't remember who missed who and where but no problem with it here. The idea of not kissing your own baby on the face is so sad.

Calphurnia88 · 18/02/2023 12:09

Our rule was top of the head only, nothing around the eyes, nose or mouth, and that applied to us too. Most family members were OK with this but I could sense some internal eyerolling from a couple.

Interestingly they were the same family members who weren't hugging (because of covid), yet somehow we were the ones being OTT for not wanting to put our newborn baby at risk of RSV, herpes, etc.

Thankfully we didn't have any confrontation over it, but if we had I would have been more than happy to advocate for my baby's health over an adults wishes to kiss him on the mouth.

Calphurnia88 · 18/02/2023 12:14

Untitledsquatboulder · 18/02/2023 08:50

This is such a sad and fucked up sentiment. Its like we need to generate things to be terrified about.

But it's not sad and fucked up, it's true?

What's sad and fucked up is that someone would put their need to kiss a cute ickle baby over the health (and potentially life) of a human infant.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/mum-begs-people-stop-kissing-13529384.amp

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/dad-who-killed-baby-son-28169406.amp

www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/parents-baby-died-after-kiss-welcome-son-anniversary-infants-death.amp

www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/health/baby-dies-of-meningitis-from-herpes-virus/index.html

Katypp · 18/02/2023 13:23

treasurefoil · 18/02/2023 03:31

Just remind her she did the best that she knew then, which was good. But we have learnt more and your doing the best you can knowing what you know now. So respecting her parenting but not following it. Parenting/ humanity is constant change and progression. I'm sure something we are doing with the babies is potentially deadly in the future so we will become the people who don't see it.

I agree with this. Where once new mothers looked to their mums for advice, now Google has made everyone an expert, sometimes even before the baby arrives. There is 15 years between my youngest and oldest children, and there were loads of changes in advice in the intervening years. But what some don't realise is today's guidelines are just that - guidelines. It is not neglect to put your baby down or wean them before six months, millions of babies were brought up with different guidelines.
I also find on MN there is an assumption that current guidelines are the definitive right ones, and don't seem to realise they will change and the very things you may sneer at your mum about will become best practise again

Openmindedbloke · 19/02/2023 00:45

We actively kiss our baby on the face. Mostly to show affection. We have never had a problem really and I guess it’s good to expose a bit. Also don’t have a problem with others doing so. In fact if others are round when baby is heading to bed ( relatives or not) I will usually whip round with the baby to kiss everyone good night. Again it’s more of an ‘show affection’ thing and we’ve always done it

Untitledsquatboulder · 19/02/2023 01:02

@Calphurnia88 if babys were as fragile as all that no second or subsequent children would survive. It is really odd (and yes, fucked up) to see parents so worried about their pfb and "germs", afraid to kiss their own baby, when you know in a couple of years they'll bring baby number 2 home to a slobbering, germ infested toddler with no qualms.

In rare and tragic cases yes babies can die of transmissable diseases - most of which can be spread by proximity rather than just by kissing. In rare and tragic cases they die in car accidents. We still take them in cars though.

ChaosAndCrumbs · 19/02/2023 01:05

These are all known secondary sources that write headlines to shock, scaremonger and, therefore, sell papers and drive hits up. I worked in journalism and those are not primary sources to support a claim parents kissing newborns (or grandparents) is a big enough risk to mean people shouldn’t do it (unless you/they have a cold sore). You need to be posting actual studies and, even then, be looking critically at them. Equally, be suspicious of privately funded medical services releasing information from those who may not be qualified to give it. Different countries health information also differs based on the issues within that country. For herpes in neotates, ‘In the UK, the stated incidence is low at 1.65 per 100 000 live births, which is in contrast with an incidence of 33 per 100 000 in the USA.’ So the USA is more anxious about it and advice sometimes differs there. However, the Association here believes we should stop scaremongering mothers as the rates are so low and babies have natural protection against it.

We know from Covid you have to be a good distance away to not share droplets of salvia in the air, we also know how important close contact like skin to skin is for babies - kissing on the top of the head or holding a baby but not kissing them makes no real difference to whether they catch the majority of illnesses. We know face to face interactions are important, these can’t happen without being close enough to pass any infectious illness that spreads through aerosol transfer on. Kissing a baby on the lips, especially for parents and siblings, is a natural and hormonally driven response encouraging both of you to bond and have that face to face interaction that’s key to us as social beings. Can you remove it and still do face to face interaction and bond closely? Yes, of course. Will it prevent your child catching someone’s virus or similar? No, because if they are close to the baby, they are within the range that the baby may pick something up.

Yes, it’s perfectly normal for a new mum to have those feelings, but part of that is hormones in overdrive. Sometimes these go further than is realistic. Obviously, totally OP’s choice is grandparents kiss baby, but it’s part of us being social. Parents not kissing a baby is still a choice, but it’s normal (hormonally and psychologically) and loving to kiss them. Obviously, if as a grandparent or friend you have a cold sore or similar, you don’t kiss them while it’s contagious.

www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abh1054 - Early concepts of intimacy: Young humans use saliva sharing to infer close relationships (weirder one, but you get the drift)

scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=importance+skin+to+skin+in+babies+early+relationship&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1676766154821&u=%23p%3Dsd8-m9R8DxkJ -
one of the studies on importance of skin to skin

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1355184120301770 - discusses implications of reduction in face to face contact in babies and those around them due to Covid

scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=baby+face+to+face+++&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1676766928669&u=%23p%3DmYBqw_5fZi8J - touches on face to face in context of secure attachment and also adds mother encouraging responsiveness plays a large role

scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=the+importance+of+kissing+your+baby&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1676767416865&u=%23p%3Dq_nnyS_hwhIJ - absence of kissing/hugging seems to correlate with less healthy attachment patterns (this is also mothers comfortable with less bodily contact overall though)

ChaosAndCrumbs · 19/02/2023 01:06

Untitledsquatboulder · 19/02/2023 01:02

@Calphurnia88 if babys were as fragile as all that no second or subsequent children would survive. It is really odd (and yes, fucked up) to see parents so worried about their pfb and "germs", afraid to kiss their own baby, when you know in a couple of years they'll bring baby number 2 home to a slobbering, germ infested toddler with no qualms.

In rare and tragic cases yes babies can die of transmissable diseases - most of which can be spread by proximity rather than just by kissing. In rare and tragic cases they die in car accidents. We still take them in cars though.

Exactly. Perfect point re toddlers.

Kalasbyxor · 19/02/2023 01:16

Absolutely reasonable.
DC1 narrowly escaped contracting herpes at just a couple of months old, from an unboundaried friend who wouldn't respect my request not to kiss them despite having an active coldsore. They got really shirty and accused me of shaming them, but the only way of not shaming them was apparently to let them kiss DC1 smack on the face. So weird.

tobee · 19/02/2023 03:05

How do you know the baby would have contracted herpes? Not kissing the baby, active coke sore or not, doesn't actually prove one way or the other.

Calphurnia88 · 19/02/2023 08:02

@ChaosAndCrumbs

These are mostly studies on the impact of face to face interaction, including kissing, on attachment. So not conclusive evidence for or against allowing immediate or non-immediate family members to kiss a newborn baby based on risk to physical health, as this wasn't the aim of the study. Presumably this cannot be robustly tested (test vs. control), as it would be unethical to deliberately endanger an infant but I'm speculating.

www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abh1054 - Early concepts of intimacy: Young humans use saliva sharing to infer close relationships (weirder one, but you get the drift)

This study - which does obviously cover saliva sharing - didn't include newborns, or even babies (participants were aged 5-7).

Obviously, if as a grandparent or friend you have a cold sore or similar, you don’t kiss them while it’s contagious.

I have no idea who amongst my friends and family suffer from cold sores, and I wasn't about to start interrogating each of them on their herpes status, and whether they had felt any tingling in the last couple of days before each visit. Much easier to have a blanket rule to not kiss the baby on or near the mouth, eyes or nose.

Kalasbyxor · 19/02/2023 08:20

tobee, you're right, of course. No guarantees.
But anecdotally, those in my acquaintance who have complained about their coldsores (and sadly, genital herpes) are able to pin it on an occasion where there was contact with another sufferer's mouth. Moat people don't have so many random mouth-to-face/genital contacts that it is difficult to work out when contagion occurred.
So I'm pretty certain that my friend's lesion would have posed a real risk to my baby.

Calphurnia88 · 19/02/2023 08:28

tobee · 19/02/2023 03:05

How do you know the baby would have contracted herpes? Not kissing the baby, active coke sore or not, doesn't actually prove one way or the other.

Genuine question; would you let someone kiss you on the face if they had an active coldsore?

Truckinghell · 19/02/2023 08:33

JenniferBarkley · 18/02/2023 09:20

My youngest is only 2 and was born in summer 2020 and we were never told this.

Honestly can't remember who missed who and where but no problem with it here. The idea of not kissing your own baby on the face is so sad.

Same - COVID baby and never heard it. Spent most of my maternity leave snogging her stupid little face off.

Itsmyturnnow1 · 19/02/2023 08:37

I flinch now when my MIL asks for a kiss on the lips from my 4 year old DS.. I just find it unnecessary! Myself and husband kiss him all the time as he’s ours but I find it weird when she does, especially as they’re not close really and she barely makes conversation with him!

Ivalueloyaltyaboveallelse · 19/02/2023 08:40

Well a family member had a baby 4 weeks ago and was informed by healthcare professionals not to let anyone kiss the baby, due to Strep B. If you can prevent babies from becoming seriously unwell why wouldn’t you? I enjoyed my visit and cuddles just the same. You can easily show love and affection without having to kiss a baby and put their health a risk.

CinderellasBoot · 19/02/2023 08:51

I cannot believe what I'm reading in some of these posts!

A baby without any kisses??? The world has gone mad!

Ivalueloyaltyaboveallelse · 19/02/2023 08:58

@CinderellasBoot it’s not forever it’s just while they are vulnerable babies unable to cope with strep b. Doesn’t mean the child will have no love of affection a baby does not understand what a kiss signals. A baby feels secure and responds to eye contact, touch ie cuddles, tone of voice and if you meet its needs when it communicates by crying.

DancingDaughter50 · 19/02/2023 09:01

Agree a baby does not need wet lips pressed to it's face to its face to feel love.

Kissing is more to the pleasure of the giver.

Hold a baby gently and think about what's best for that baby father than yourself...

DancingDaughter50 · 19/02/2023 09:05

@Calphurnia88. I've also read that adults can give children their own mouth bacteria that could lead too tooth problems.

I've never shared Cultery with a child or saliva.

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