To worry about my sons complete lack of empathy?

[DreamWaster]

He is 10yrs old and has suspected but undiagnosed ASD.

He has never understood empathy and used to watch his class mates when they cried and not feel a need to cheer them up. He pays no attention to his brother if he hurts himself or has hurt him even if hes screaming/crying in pain.

we found a fledgling bird that was in a really bad way and asked to take it home. I was really happy thinking he wanted to make it better so when I gently said that it didn’t look like it would recover he looked at me in confusion and said he knew, he just wanted to keep it as it was ‘cool’ and wanted to keep it with his other things he finds like animal skulls and interesting rocks (we live rurally).

I asked him if he felt sorry for the bird and he said no so I asked if he’d ever want to harm an animal to which he also replied no thank God. Is this worrying behaviour for a 20 year old? He’s a sociable bright boy with friends and is doing ok in school.

I think I’m overly empathetic which may be why it worry’s me more.

Personally, I would be concerned and I would get him assessed ASAP.

Would you like to push for assessment?

He’s already in a long queue for ASD assentment

I’d be concerned about that. Have school mentioned any other indications ?

Sorry is he 10 or 20 I think here is a typo?

I wouldn't be worried about the bird. He clearly takes a scientific approach. Nor would I worry much about the sibling as kids tune out out siblings often. However yeah taken altogether and the fact that you're concerned...I'd pay for a private assessment because early intervention is so important.

He probably does have empathy but maybe not as you experience it. I'm autistic and I have lots of empathy but I know lots of autistic people don't experience it in the same way.
His classmates crying , realistically what could he have done? Would a hug have solved their issue? Probably not. Same for his crying sibling. So he probably just doesn't see the point. He's probably a very logical / black and white thinker.

The school mention that he mirrors other peoples behaviours easily so can sort of fit in and has friends and loves to make people laugh which is reassuring.

they also say he can’t see anyone else’s point of view or show affection or empathy towards them but said he doesn’t go out of his way to hurt people.

I had to teach one of my adhd kids empathy. They still struggle to see things from other people's perspectives. Lots of encouragement still to think how they would feel in the same situation.

Sorry he 10! A typo

As he’s heading towards high school age I’d be getting a private assessment if you can afford it.

@Languagelanguage yes he is scientific and loves the natural world/biology so that would make sense.

I’m waiting for an adult autism assessment and agree with it. Not caring and not responding typically are different.

My 5 year old ----has autism. Dc does have some empathy, but not in the same way as others. Dc will miss facial queues though and only notice more dramatic emotions. Dc will comfort other children at school, but struggles to think how other will feel and can be inconsiderate alot.

cues* not queues 😊

Having autism (if it turns out he does) doesn't necessarily mean not being empathetic.

Not comforting a friend or sibling doesn't necessarily ring alarm bells for me. I work with 10 and 11 year olds. The boys often display a macho, tough front. They're more likely to tease another child who is upset than to support them, though some do, obviously. If he is keen to be part of the dominant group in the class, he may well see a lot of this in the others and see it as the way to be.

He doesn't hurt others or do anything destructive so try not to worry too much. Once you get a diagnosis, if you do, things may become clearer.

Thanks, this is all very reassuring.

@DreamWaster My 15DD has ASD, diagnosed when she was 13 (it took 3 years to get the diagnosis).

She doesn't have any empathy at all but she doesn't hurt people/animals or go out of her way to be mean/rude. I genuinely think she just doesn't understand how other people are feeling. She can't really read social cues or people's expressions either.

Last year I really hurt my toe when I was on the landing, blood everywhere, DD got up from her bed and closed her door rather than see if I was ok as I was making too much noise!

She's a very literal thinker, and also really in to science. She's brilliant at biology!

I really wouldn't worry too much. It took me a long time to get used to the way she acts - for example ignoring her younger brother if he's crying. She's not doing any harm and I now completely understand it's just how her brain works!

My autistic daughter is very sensitive to others in pain, in that she will spot quite small clues that someone has a headache, injury or is acting differently. BUT she doesn't really try to 'do' something about that information. So whilst she is aware and thus able to be sensitive to others she won't appear to 'react'. If she has a headache she will generally be overwhelmed, and withdraw. She works on the basis that someone will say 'no I can't because of headache' rather than making allowances, so I would be trying to keep noise down for eg.

I don't have advice but I do have a (severely) autistic child who finds it hilarious when people hurt themselves, if it's any consolation.

It’s alexithymia that causes lack of empathy in autistics.

many autistics are extremely empathetic

Sorry, but I do think you should be concerned. ASD does not equal 'no empathy.' Struggling to understand other's perspectives is not the same as simply not caring when somebody is in pain or upset.

I have 2 DC with ASD. One who is extremely caring, who struggles to understand alternate opinions: but does appreciate their validity.
The other is manipulative, gaslighty and more than likely has a co-morbid personality disorder. He also understands others perfectly well, he just doesn't give a shit about anything other than himself, sadly.
It's not the same.

If your son falls into the second camp: understands but doesn't care, I would seek medical assessment urgently. The teen years come around quickly and are hell on earth. I don't know how I'm still alive.

Sounds a lot like my asd 8yo DD. I've had to teach her the appropriate way to respond when friends fall over etc, before she used to complain her sister was too noisy when she cried, now she can run over and say are you ok? But only because I've taught her.

I think you can very assured by the fact he doesn't want to actually hurt anyone. He may experience empathy but just not outwardly and not in the same way you do. Just keep chatting to him very simply about how and why others are feeling a certain way. 'Oh look brother is feeling very sad we should do X to cheer him up. That bird is hurt, poor bird. Remember how much you disliked it when you hurt your arm.' Etc. Sounds like he has many positive qualities.

Bit bloody tired of saying this on MN but being autistic does not mean lacking in empathy. My autistic son is one of the most empathetic people I know.