To worry about my sons complete lack of empathy?

[DreamWaster]

He is 10yrs old and has suspected but undiagnosed ASD.

He has never understood empathy and used to watch his class mates when they cried and not feel a need to cheer them up. He pays no attention to his brother if he hurts himself or has hurt him even if hes screaming/crying in pain.

we found a fledgling bird that was in a really bad way and asked to take it home. I was really happy thinking he wanted to make it better so when I gently said that it didn’t look like it would recover he looked at me in confusion and said he knew, he just wanted to keep it as it was ‘cool’ and wanted to keep it with his other things he finds like animal skulls and interesting rocks (we live rurally).

I asked him if he felt sorry for the bird and he said no so I asked if he’d ever want to harm an animal to which he also replied no thank God. Is this worrying behaviour for a 20 year old? He’s a sociable bright boy with friends and is doing ok in school.

I think I’m overly empathetic which may be why it worry’s me more.

I adopted my son aged 4. Perhaps because of what he'd been through he had no empathy for other people. He, too, is very scientifically minded. He is very matter of fact about everything. He is now 23 and at uni, doing a degree involving working mainly alone . He has a small tight knit group of friends from high school and has had a couple of short term girlfriends. He would never hurt anyone or an animal, but he never shows any sympathy/empathy for anyone. He is a pleasant enough young man, who has never caused us any trouble. He does tell us he loves us but that's only started in the last couple of years. He's an only child and doesn't show any interest in the wider family, cousins etc I did worry about him, it was almost as if he'd put a barrier between himself and other people, but I've just had to accept that's the way he is.

I'm NT but I struggle with showing emotions and relating to people. It's just how I cope with life. I'm a "keep calm and carry on" type. Your DS might just be like that. I don't have any desire to hurt anyone!

I don’t think you actively need to worry - not being able to relate to suffering (if indeed he can’t) isn’t the same as wanting to cause it.

But if I could afford private assessment I’d push for it, and then I’d push for some learning support to help him imagine himself in other people’s shoes. It can be taught to an extent and is a useful life skill.

@DreamWaster maybe he doesn’t feel empathy- that would be fine. The world needs people who can navigate situations without emotion. If he was wanting to hurt things/people or enjoying their pain that would be a different issue.

Many full on sociopaths go through life as law abiding productive members of society.

You should only be worried if he is a danger or risk to others/self.

There are many kids who are not on the spectrum who are down right cruel and nasty. They are the ones to worry about

He sounds like a good kid

I would worry If I was you. Empathy is important as he turns into an adult. I saw a post about food for thought how the lack of Empathy is actually good. I like that post, it makes sense I can see how that is helpful. That's your best outcome. Do you want to gamble for the worst though. Kids are funny little things lol. We are all odd & weird in our own way. I think it's just making sure it'd channelled correctly. Get him the help he needs & let him become the best surgeon in the country 🥰

The reply’s have been overwhelmingly positive. Thank you!!
when I’ve asked him how he feels when someone is in pain or crying is always that he’s not really feeling anything but when pressed he says he’s glad it’s not him.

The bird thing worried me as it was still alive and I hate the thought of anyone or anything suffering. I’m not squeamish or over emotional and happily collect bones and stuff with him and even help clean them up.

He’s 10! Sorry about the typo

⁹if you can afford it i would get the assessment done privately. It is very helpful in terms of really starting to connect with people who understand your child

My daughter is autistic and experiences empathy differently to me. She is highly empathetic regarding certain issues that interest her e.g. trans issues. She can feel deep empathy if she sees someone else being bullied. Meanwhile, she can seem very, very unempathetic. She might, for example, laugh about someone’s death in the news. She has no feelings about me if I’m exhausted by a busy day.
I think it would be helpful for your son tohave a diagnosis to help him understamd himself and you him. I’m not sure if empathy can be taught but I suppose he can approach situations as following a set of rules rather than having to feel empathy. So with his brother, he may never feel his pain but he could be taught that it’s the right thing to do to check he is ok and to get help if necessary.

I understand you feel concerned but please please don't believe that erroneous cliche that autistic people aren't empathetic. They're often extremely empathetic but demonstrate or feel it in specific ways.

His attitude to the bird sounds very like one i would think Chris Packham would have, he is fascinated by wildlife, loves wildlife, wouldn't go round harming it, but he's not upset when a predator kills a cute little fluffy thing or whatever. Wildlife dies all the time, it's just one of those things - only between 10 and 20 percent of young birds reach adulthood.

My DS (with ASD) is very poor at knowing what to do if someone is upset, he certainly wouldn't hug them as he hates to be touched and he would have no idea what to say so he just wouldn't do anything or he might just get in a complete panic. It doesn't mean he has no empathy he just has no idea what to do or how to show it.

All of these professions have a high incidence of psychopathy / sociopathy. Doesn't mean you are a bad person. If you have lots of empathy you'd make a poor CEO when lots of people need to be made redundant for the good of the business. Psychopathic traits don't mean you kill. Your son may have many of the traits. If you Google it there is a list of behaviours. My mother is a psychopath. She lives a perfectly normal ,but emotionless, life.

My autistic 8 year old does grasp absolutely that other people have feelings and does want other people to feel happy etc

Bur she rarely displays overt empathy as you might recognise it.

She is actually highly sensitive to how other people are feelimg but her lack of understanding of social complexity somewhere like scholl means she would never go out of her way to comfort a child etc

She doesnt like it when others get hurt as it triggers her anxiety which again can seem lacking in empathy

I have a daughter like this, she really struggles. She's older now, and can show it to friend, but that's because she has learned. She can't necessarily apply the same rule to a different circumstance.

She is very bright, and has a strong sense of social justice. And when something is unfair to her she will know it, but can't apply it to others.

She also would not react to someone being hurt. when very small I would have to tell her that if her brother is crying when she's doing something to him, then she is hurting him.

We do lots of social stories, talk things through afterwards so that she understands.

DD2 (15) can offer a blanket or a hug when she sees distress. If the recipient doesn't want a blanket or a hug, she doesn't have a 'next step'. It's not that she doesn't care. She just doesn't have a 'solution', so gets stuck.

Have a read of theory of mind. It's about not being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

So he doesn't understand the hurt because he can't feel it.

Doesn't mean he doesn't care but he doesn't have that same emotional attachment.

Same with the bird. It's was going to die. He was stating biological facts and probably didn't feel sorry for it because he couldn't understand it may be in pain etc. that's not a worry.

Autistic people can see the world in a very black and white way which can have its benefits.

My autistic ds can be over empathetic in some senario and completely seem to lack empathy on others.

He's a perfectly well rounded adult despite this.

My just-turned 11 year old has autism, he is extremely verbal and very bright. In terms of empathy, I actually worry sometimes he is too empathetic. He is very kind, very sensitive and is actively upset to see anyone sad or in pain. The downside of this is that he is a big worrier, likes to try and 'fix' things for people and I worry he might he easily taken advantage of when he's older.

DS2 aged 6 is NT, and a bit of enigma.I wouldn't say he is quite as kind. He can be a tad mean and a bit selfish at times if I'm totally honest. But he has amazing compassion for animals and younger children, and does react appropriately if the situation requires it - he gets worried if someone he cares about is ill or in trouble, but not for a standard 'cold' if that makes sense?

My niece aged 13 has more severe autism and has only just become verbal over the past couple of years. She does not respond in a typical way,often laughing when she sees someone hurt or crying.But she will have odd flashes of really considerate behavior, e.g. a few weeks ago she walked in on her Mum crying and she started to cry too, although she didn't ask what was wrong or if she could help.

It's just so so complex. At least your son is on a pathway, hopefully you get answers whatevers happening. All the best.

And also (and bear in mind I’m feeling very very grumpy today), why does everyone immediately think ‘ASD’ and not antisocial personality disorder?

My mother is a psychopath.

Now there’s a book title, if ever I saw one!

And no we f*ing don’t see everything in black and white!!! A lot of us see so many shades of grey that we can’t make ourselves clear because we’re trying to deal with our brains going off on hundreds of tangents. Neurotypicals (especially Myers Briggs sensors) have the most predictable, none nuanced thoughts that make me wonder why they even bother speaking.

Sorry!!! Infj door slam followed by apology. Predictable🙂

@RemoteControlDoobry because it doesn’t fit…

➖Antisocial personality disorder is a particularly challenging type of personality disorder characterised by impulsive, irresponsible and often criminal behaviour.

Someone with antisocial personality disorder will typically be manipulative, deceitful and reckless, and will not care for other people's feelings➖

this isn’t what she described.

Why did you ask him if he’d ever want to harm an animal ?!