To worry about my sons complete lack of empathy?

[DreamWaster]

He is 10yrs old and has suspected but undiagnosed ASD.

He has never understood empathy and used to watch his class mates when they cried and not feel a need to cheer them up. He pays no attention to his brother if he hurts himself or has hurt him even if hes screaming/crying in pain.

we found a fledgling bird that was in a really bad way and asked to take it home. I was really happy thinking he wanted to make it better so when I gently said that it didn’t look like it would recover he looked at me in confusion and said he knew, he just wanted to keep it as it was ‘cool’ and wanted to keep it with his other things he finds like animal skulls and interesting rocks (we live rurally).

I asked him if he felt sorry for the bird and he said no so I asked if he’d ever want to harm an animal to which he also replied no thank God. Is this worrying behaviour for a 20 year old? He’s a sociable bright boy with friends and is doing ok in school.

I think I’m overly empathetic which may be why it worry’s me more.

I don't think this is autistic but I would be concerned. I don't actually know any autistic people that are less empathetic than NTs, I think it's NT propaganda.

I read a book about a kid but I can't remember the thing he was diagnosed with but I remember they mentioned how important warm parenting is. Which was described as pointing out how someone feels and what you should do.

I wouldn't worry to much most psychopaths do very well in life their usually the top earners

This is part of perspective taking which I believe can be practiced (e.g. taking turns, working out when other people might think something different). That's more logical than emotional so might be a first step.
DS has ADHD and some traits of ASD but can show empathy when he wants. If I or DH are ill he brings us what he thinks we'd want (usually a drink of water and a teddy...). He's 11 and it isn't all there but we are working on it. Better to practice than explain I understand.

when it comes to personality disorders they’re incredibly complex, and while there is an understanding, it’s a poor one.

There are a number of issues with the ASPD diagnosis, largely because it’s been developed by observing criminals, and while it ‘includes’ sociopathy, that’s a separate ‘diagnosis’ (it currently doesn’t have its own specific one) that has some overlap but can display very differently.

the majority of sociopaths aren’t criminals, and in fact can operate very well in law abiding society. They can also display good understanding cognitive empathy, which is different to ‘feeling’ empathy.

and not all sociopaths are sadistic. Sociopathy and sadistic personality disorder can both be present in someone, but they are different disorders. If a sociopath causes harm it’s because it serves a purpose. They won’t care about the hurt that has been caused, but neither will they enjoy it. A sadist enjoys it.

My kids (diagnosed with ASD) had this - it's a particular type of empathy that they struggled with, and which apparently people with ASD generally have problems with, where they can't put themselves in the shoes of someone else, so don't know how to react.

For instance, if most people saw someone stubbing their toe, or walking into a door, they'd wince, but ASD kids have problems feeling that. They do have (and have always had) sympathy (which is different) with others and actually are very kind.

Adding to the chorus of:

Lack of empathy is not an autistic thing. That’s an outdated stereotype and misconception, stemming from what is actually the case: that autistic people may struggle to express their empathy in the same ways neurotypicals do.

Some autistic people don’t feel empathy, but then some neurotypicals don’t, either.

Try not to assume he doesn’t actually feel empathy, simply because he doesn’t verbalise or show it.

You seem to be equating ASD with being a psychopath.

Just because he doesn't show empathy in the same way as you might, doesn't mean he's lined up to be a serial killer fgs.

It sounds like he's logical and pragmatic. The bird is sick, it's going to die. The bird is cool, I'd like to keep it. My school friend is crying. I don't think I can fix that, he's not in danger. Experience tells me he'll stop soon or an adult will help.

Those with ASD are often very focused on their interests and have no time for frivolities. Why would I gush and hug you when I see you? I see that you are here. I am happy or at least not unhappy that you are here. I'm still in the middle of doing whatever it is that I was doing though, and I'm not very good at small talk. Perhaps later I can talk your ear off about WW2 era aircraft or jurassic/triassic speices, if you make the mistake of feigning interest?

If he's not harming himself or others I wouldn't worry about it. Do keep chasing for his assessment though. The earlier you can get him support the better. In the meantime, lots of reading. You'll need to teach certain behaviours and he'll learn to understand or play along.

My adult sibling is ND and a much kinder and more empathetic person than NT me. Very much so.

Yep — I could equally well argue that non-autistics lack empathy, because in my experience, they tend to respond to my distress by doing things that only serve to make me feel worse, like talking to me and touching me. And that's when they can even tell that I'm distressed, which they often can't because they only understand distress signals if they're the same as their own distress signals.

Of course, they don't intend to cause me extra difficulty and pain at a time when I can least cope with it. But I am expected to understand their very different brains and ways of thinking and reacting, accommodate their difference from me, accept that though they're hurting me they mean well and I should respond nicely… in effect, I'm somehow supposed to develop better empathy than the average person in order to get by in a majority non-autistic world, because I mostly have to deal with people whose brains are different to mine. I'm expected to do this despite having a disability that affects communication, social understanding and social skills 🙄

I am related to and know people who are/where in these jobs and a few more. They compartmentalise.

So while doing their job they don't think about theirs or others feelings, but outside it that they do.

In fact I've been around people who were in the armed forces and those in the medical profession who have shown emotional distress over something that has happened days, weeks or even decades ago.

I would say don't worry too much OP. You could always point out to him how somebody else may feel. You could tell him why you feel this. Ie B looked upset when you said that etc etc

I think many children need this as it didn't come naturally to some. i definately need to do this with my son.

As per the many podcasts, chats with senco etc I do try to channel empathy and teach him on a daily basis. He really is the sweetest boy and I hope he learns it by rote IYSWIM.

Im sorry that ASD and lack of empathy have been conflated on here. I’m relatively new to it all being NT.

To the poster who asked why I asked him if he’d ever hurt animals, it was because the bird wasn’t dead and he already viewed it as a cool object rather than a suffering being. My bad I guess.