Page 10 | Life is too expensive and not enjoyable.

buildingourdreams · 2023-02-12T15:49:34+00:00

I am only 26 years old and I am tired H and I both earn okay money both work ft and I sometimes do part time work too We've 2 boys under 7 and After rent bills and food and petrol we have not a penny . This is with our parents helping with childcare we don't even have to pay childcare for the boys thankfully 🙏 We Can't go on holiday. Can't even have a takeaway or my nails done We rent and Can't save for a house to buy don't get any benefits other than the basic Cb about £200 month. (And I don't expect or want handouts anyway) Is this our life now ? Don't tell me to get a better job as I might do as I get older but this is not the point I'm making . If someone works full time they should be able to afford a few treats in life and specially with 2 incomes! I worry constantly that we are failing our kids and should I even have had them? And also Like, what will even become of people like us when we're old ?

JimHensonWasAGenius · 13/02/2023 20:46

Greenfairydust · 12/02/2023 16:17

''I hope this is not an ignorant question but what would the opposite party do to make people like me / us lives better ?''

I despair when I read this after more than a decade of Tory mismanagement.

What would the opposite party do?

How about: fund the NHS correctly, renationalise utilities and the railways, stop demonising people on lower income/benefits and disabled, not try to push laws that restrict our freedom to strike and protest and generally actually lead the country rather than busy themselves with lining their pockets, making their rich mates richer and letting the rest of us struggle. Not to mention look seriously at the Brexit mess and consider another referendum to reverse it.

😂😂😂😂😂

ElliF · 13/02/2023 21:50

Greenfairydust · 12/02/2023 16:17

''I hope this is not an ignorant question but what would the opposite party do to make people like me / us lives better ?''

I despair when I read this after more than a decade of Tory mismanagement.

What would the opposite party do?

How about: fund the NHS correctly, renationalise utilities and the railways, stop demonising people on lower income/benefits and disabled, not try to push laws that restrict our freedom to strike and protest and generally actually lead the country rather than busy themselves with lining their pockets, making their rich mates richer and letting the rest of us struggle. Not to mention look seriously at the Brexit mess and consider another referendum to reverse it.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Seriously. NHS budget is £180 billion a year.
Here’s an idea... and I know it’s not popular with the socialist types...
Why not make public servants responsible (big word there) for the decisions they make with the publics money?
Why not set a pay cap at £100K a year for any single staff member?
Why not set limits on how much money they can spend on things?
I know of one hospital that spent £27,400 fitting a pipe on the outside of the wall no taller than a house. In 2015, that was the same cost as a three bed house in Wales. To fit a pipe for a toilet in a staff room.
Maybe if they stopped pissing the money we do give them up the wall, we might care when they come with their annual begging bowl asking for more.

Headabovetheparakeet · 13/02/2023 21:56

Maybe if they stopped pissing the money we do give them up the wall, we might care when they come with their annual begging bowl asking for more.

I thought you didn't participate in politics or complain about the outcomes of it?

Original poster

buildingourdreams · 13/02/2023 22:15

This thread has been totally derailed by @ElliF and her bizarre ramblings 😴

Appreciate the many helpful posts though, I feel less alone

OP posts:

ilovesooty · 13/02/2023 22:40

buildingourdreams · 13/02/2023 22:15

This thread has been totally derailed by @ElliF and her bizarre ramblings 😴

Appreciate the many helpful posts though, I feel less alone

Yes, I agree. Glad to hear you've found some of it helpful and you feel less alone.

socialmedia23 · 13/02/2023 22:59

My DH said today that we are low earners.i am on 45k and he is on 65k, we do live in London (where we have a mortgaged 2 bed flat). No DC yet. I do know we earn more than the median London income and according to ONS, we earn more than 90% of the country as a household of our size. But yet I can see where he is coming from, a combined income of £110k is really not high for a graduate couple in the capital city of a developed country. If wages had grown in real terms, we should be earning that each rather than combined..and of course paying the high taxes to match (which we would do so gladly). Most of us with earnings below £150k are not earning well particularly if we have been working for a few years. It's because we are a low earning/low productivity country with wages that have not grown in real terms that we think that £60k is a good salary!

And actually a lot of our problems as a country are linked to this. Our house prices only seem high because earnings from salaried employment are so low (on the other hand, bank of mum and dad is with £14 billion). I know people who were gifted £280k for a house..so there is plenty of money out there, it's just not being paid to the majority of people for their labour.. low pay means less tax revenue which leads to poor public services.

3kidswouldfinishanyoneoff · 13/02/2023 23:26

I hear you op, loud and clear.

I was financially stable when I had my children at 27, 28 and 29. They are 14, 15 and 16 year.

I did everything right as some are suggesting here. My ex husband is an Architect and I was in Finance. He was earning mega bucks something like 15k a month.

Fast forward to now I'm raising the children alone, paying our shared mortgage alone. Nothing from him since I left him in 2014.

Now I'm working two jobs, my mortgage has increased by 800 euro a month since September to 1964 euros, my electricity DD I'd €443 per month. I'm honestly dead, I'm utterly exhausted and sometimes I can't breathe thinking about it all.

ElliF · 13/02/2023 23:34

socialmedia23 · 13/02/2023 22:59

My DH said today that we are low earners.i am on 45k and he is on 65k, we do live in London (where we have a mortgaged 2 bed flat). No DC yet. I do know we earn more than the median London income and according to ONS, we earn more than 90% of the country as a household of our size. But yet I can see where he is coming from, a combined income of £110k is really not high for a graduate couple in the capital city of a developed country. If wages had grown in real terms, we should be earning that each rather than combined..and of course paying the high taxes to match (which we would do so gladly). Most of us with earnings below £150k are not earning well particularly if we have been working for a few years. It's because we are a low earning/low productivity country with wages that have not grown in real terms that we think that £60k is a good salary!

And actually a lot of our problems as a country are linked to this. Our house prices only seem high because earnings from salaried employment are so low (on the other hand, bank of mum and dad is with £14 billion). I know people who were gifted £280k for a house..so there is plenty of money out there, it's just not being paid to the majority of people for their labour.. low pay means less tax revenue which leads to poor public services.

Oh, the pain and suffering of the top 10% in one of the richest counties in the world. Feeling left out because Mummy and Daddy didn’t buy you a house and you needed to get a mortgage? There’s a lot of people here who can sympathise with you.

ElliF · 13/02/2023 23:46

3kidswouldfinishanyoneoff · 13/02/2023 23:26

I hear you op, loud and clear.

I was financially stable when I had my children at 27, 28 and 29. They are 14, 15 and 16 year.

I did everything right as some are suggesting here. My ex husband is an Architect and I was in Finance. He was earning mega bucks something like 15k a month.

Fast forward to now I'm raising the children alone, paying our shared mortgage alone. Nothing from him since I left him in 2014.

Now I'm working two jobs, my mortgage has increased by 800 euro a month since September to 1964 euros, my electricity DD I'd €443 per month. I'm honestly dead, I'm utterly exhausted and sometimes I can't breathe thinking about it all.

So you know what went wrong then.
And you were in finance, so you understood what inflation is and the affects it causes in society.
And you understood the importance of having savings and a safety net in case one leaves one’s husband. There’s a book called FU Money. Everyone should have FU Money in case they want to walk from their jobs, or their lives or their spouses.
Can you not chase him for child support of any kind? Divorce him and settle split the marital assets?

socialmedia23 · 13/02/2023 23:51

ElliF · 13/02/2023 23:34

Oh, the pain and suffering of the top 10% in one of the richest counties in the world. Feeling left out because Mummy and Daddy didn’t buy you a house and you needed to get a mortgage? There’s a lot of people here who can sympathise with you.

Show quote history

My dad offered to buy me a house actually (in his name and my DH and I could live there rent free; though at that time, we were already living with my DH's mum in London rent free) and I said it's ok, I don't need it as we can afford our own and the good thing about buying with your own money is that you can choose... You don't need to experience poverty in order to have a sense of justice and realize that a society where your inheritance matters more than your labour or your skills is not a model I support..I might have wealthy parents but I don't feel that it's correct that they should pay for my housing. I also don't think it's healthy that it's so wide spread and the reason why parents give £280k to their kids is not because they are extraordinarily generous but because they know their kids would not be able to live well without the handout. The family I know who gave £280k to their child- they downsized from a 5 bed house to a 3 bed flat. At least they had the 280k to give, what about the people who aren't lucky enough to have self sacrificing rich parents?

my point about earnings being low- this affects us all including the quality of the NHS and schools and the police. Someone needs to fund it and if most of us are not earning enough to be net contributors (you have to be top 10% to be net contributor), I don't think this would stay a 'rich country ' for very long. I think British people are extraordinarily tolerant of poverty & suffering and it is admirable in some ways but at the same time, I feel really sad for them.

TheLostGiraffe · 13/02/2023 23:57

socialmedia23 · 13/02/2023 22:59

My DH said today that we are low earners.i am on 45k and he is on 65k, we do live in London (where we have a mortgaged 2 bed flat). No DC yet. I do know we earn more than the median London income and according to ONS, we earn more than 90% of the country as a household of our size. But yet I can see where he is coming from, a combined income of £110k is really not high for a graduate couple in the capital city of a developed country. If wages had grown in real terms, we should be earning that each rather than combined..and of course paying the high taxes to match (which we would do so gladly). Most of us with earnings below £150k are not earning well particularly if we have been working for a few years. It's because we are a low earning/low productivity country with wages that have not grown in real terms that we think that £60k is a good salary!

And actually a lot of our problems as a country are linked to this. Our house prices only seem high because earnings from salaried employment are so low (on the other hand, bank of mum and dad is with £14 billion). I know people who were gifted £280k for a house..so there is plenty of money out there, it's just not being paid to the majority of people for their labour.. low pay means less tax revenue which leads to poor public services.

That's the nail on the head. Salariesneed to increase, massively. The only way that can happen is increased productivity. That means getting rid of all of the perverse incentives and bottlenecks in the tax system, and massively increasing business investment (which unsurprisingly has fallen even further off a cliff since 2016 - rejoining the single market and customs union would be a good start if people want any prospect of significant payrises).

Shauny098 · 14/02/2023 00:06

Greenfairydust · 12/02/2023 16:17

''I hope this is not an ignorant question but what would the opposite party do to make people like me / us lives better ?''

I despair when I read this after more than a decade of Tory mismanagement.

What would the opposite party do?

How about: fund the NHS correctly, renationalise utilities and the railways, stop demonising people on lower income/benefits and disabled, not try to push laws that restrict our freedom to strike and protest and generally actually lead the country rather than busy themselves with lining their pockets, making their rich mates richer and letting the rest of us struggle. Not to mention look seriously at the Brexit mess and consider another referendum to reverse it.

Wow, one of the most naive posts I’ve read 🤦🏼‍♀️

Shauny098 · 14/02/2023 00:14

ElliF · 13/02/2023 21:50

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Seriously. NHS budget is £180 billion a year.
Here’s an idea... and I know it’s not popular with the socialist types...
Why not make public servants responsible (big word there) for the decisions they make with the publics money?
Why not set a pay cap at £100K a year for any single staff member?
Why not set limits on how much money they can spend on things?
I know of one hospital that spent £27,400 fitting a pipe on the outside of the wall no taller than a house. In 2015, that was the same cost as a three bed house in Wales. To fit a pipe for a toilet in a staff room.
Maybe if they stopped pissing the money we do give them up the wall, we might care when they come with their annual begging bowl asking for more.

Show quote history

THIS!!! How are ppl still believing that the NHS is underfunded, it’s laughable! It is very well funded and very well mismanaged (at best, at worst ppl are absolutely fraudulently rinsing it with contractors being paid extortionate prices and those higher up earning huge bonuses). Genuinely, ppl need to get their heads out of their arses and stop trotting out the same old shite!

ElliF · 14/02/2023 00:22

socialmedia23 · 13/02/2023 23:51

My dad offered to buy me a house actually (in his name and my DH and I could live there rent free; though at that time, we were already living with my DH's mum in London rent free) and I said it's ok, I don't need it as we can afford our own and the good thing about buying with your own money is that you can choose... You don't need to experience poverty in order to have a sense of justice and realize that a society where your inheritance matters more than your labour or your skills is not a model I support..I might have wealthy parents but I don't feel that it's correct that they should pay for my housing. I also don't think it's healthy that it's so wide spread and the reason why parents give £280k to their kids is not because they are extraordinarily generous but because they know their kids would not be able to live well without the handout. The family I know who gave £280k to their child- they downsized from a 5 bed house to a 3 bed flat. At least they had the 280k to give, what about the people who aren't lucky enough to have self sacrificing rich parents?

my point about earnings being low- this affects us all including the quality of the NHS and schools and the police. Someone needs to fund it and if most of us are not earning enough to be net contributors (you have to be top 10% to be net contributor), I don't think this would stay a 'rich country ' for very long. I think British people are extraordinarily tolerant of poverty & suffering and it is admirable in some ways but at the same time, I feel really sad for them.

Show quote history

Thank you for that considered and very lucid response.

There are cultures where, if one’s parents bought one’s children a house, it would be seems and an addition to the family’s wealth, and families then protect those assets and distribute them as required among subsequent generations as needed to protect and improve the family’s prospect for prosperity.

Of course we see that type of family centric lifestyle as barbaric and we expect each child to flee the nest and keep in touch. But I don’t see your Dad’s offer of assistance as being anything not fitting of modern Britain. I can’t remember if you said you had kids, and I can’t scroll back and see, but it is a very natural instinct to want to pass the fruits of one’s labour onto one’s children. The idea that generations have now been raised to believe that inheritance is in some way evil and unjust is a very malignant sign or the way our country may develop.

We are a 45K income household. So DH is earning what you are earning. I’m a stay at home mum. We don’t live in London. We’d never be able to afford it. But we save £500 a month out of out £2800 income, and with CB we still have about £200 breathing room when all the bills and food are taken care of. I fully expect that £200 to be eaten up by energy bills hikes, council tax hikes, Internet, mobile phone, etc. hikes all happening at the beginning of the next tax year. And we rent privately, we received no benefits apart from CB. We don’t own a house. We’re saving for a deposit.

So £45K is very doable outside of London. That’s one salary for most working professionals. One train driver salary. Yes, maybe it would be a pinch at 28K, but then we’d qualify for social housing and UC too.

You say yourself that you are I. The top 10% of earning families in our country. That places you close to the top 2% richest families in the world. And you’ve come from money. You must surely appreciate that your view of the poor and their finances is very different to those who have lived it and learned to work their way out of it.

ElliF · 14/02/2023 00:25

That should have read, ‘it would be deemed an addition to the family’s wealth.’

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 00:35

ElliF · 14/02/2023 00:22

Thank you for that considered and very lucid response.

There are cultures where, if one’s parents bought one’s children a house, it would be seems and an addition to the family’s wealth, and families then protect those assets and distribute them as required among subsequent generations as needed to protect and improve the family’s prospect for prosperity.

Of course we see that type of family centric lifestyle as barbaric and we expect each child to flee the nest and keep in touch. But I don’t see your Dad’s offer of assistance as being anything not fitting of modern Britain. I can’t remember if you said you had kids, and I can’t scroll back and see, but it is a very natural instinct to want to pass the fruits of one’s labour onto one’s children. The idea that generations have now been raised to believe that inheritance is in some way evil and unjust is a very malignant sign or the way our country may develop.

We are a 45K income household. So DH is earning what you are earning. I’m a stay at home mum. We don’t live in London. We’d never be able to afford it. But we save £500 a month out of out £2800 income, and with CB we still have about £200 breathing room when all the bills and food are taken care of. I fully expect that £200 to be eaten up by energy bills hikes, council tax hikes, Internet, mobile phone, etc. hikes all happening at the beginning of the next tax year. And we rent privately, we received no benefits apart from CB. We don’t own a house. We’re saving for a deposit.

So £45K is very doable outside of London. That’s one salary for most working professionals. One train driver salary. Yes, maybe it would be a pinch at 28K, but then we’d qualify for social housing and UC too.

You say yourself that you are I. The top 10% of earning families in our country. That places you close to the top 2% richest families in the world. And you’ve come from money. You must surely appreciate that your view of the poor and their finances is very different to those who have lived it and learned to work their way out of it.

Show quote history

I don't have DC yet, am planning one. I do come from a culture which is very family centric but at the same time in my home country, the state builds affordable housing for 85% of the population who can't afford to buy on the private market. Married citizens/citizens who are single and above 35/other family units qualify for this scheme and it is relatively affordable- my home country has London level salaries but it can cost as little as £150-200k for a 2/3 bed 80-100 square metre apartment. On the other hand, it costs 800k to over a million to buy the same on the private market (and most people can't afford that, certainly not for the first property). OP would be a homeowner in my country. So my dad offered to buy me a home from a position of confusion- he had never paid rent in his life nor had he known anyone personally who had paid rent. Everyone he knew lived with parents before getting married and buying a home. He himself bought a house 1 month after graduating with his parents. Yet he felt it would be spoiling me to give me a house so his idea was that he would buy the house and it would be an investment while i could continue to build my career in London (while not worrying over the roof over my head). I think he was worried that I would move to a commuter town if I could not afford to buy a flat in London( which is why he gave up on the idea when we bought our flat in London). Had I been back home, he would never have bought me a home in a million years as it is possible even for someone of modest means to buy a government flat. My dad actually invests in commercial property, he has little interest in residential property.

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 00:46

ElliF · 14/02/2023 00:25

That should have read, ‘it would be deemed an addition to the family’s wealth.’

My parents are pretty traditional, like I said before, my dad bought a house with his parents and we lived together until they both passed on. But my dad has always raised me to believe that I should earn my own money and not be dependent on family money. There is a Chinese saying- even if there is a mountain of money, if you just sit on it and eat, it will vanish into thin air. My parents are self made, and they don't want their money to vanish! It is not a bad thing for a family to pool resources but I think that there should be an affordable option for those without families with resources.

The thing is if you allow families to pass on this kind of wealth tax free, it will mean we collectively get poorer. My parents might be rich but they are not billionaires. And wealth is relative. It is entirely possible that in a generation, £1 million would be the entry level price for an apartment in Manchester and so if you were someone in the North relying on your 500k inheritance to get on the housing ladder, you would be stuffed. If you get £100 and someone else gets £1000, you have just gotten poorer. It's different with salaried employment as that is work that contributes to the country's GDP and has a knock on effect. It will also benefit local businesses and services Wealth on the other hand is largely not spent except on assets. Great wealth and low salaries lead to great inequality.

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 01:22

ElliF · 14/02/2023 00:22

Thank you for that considered and very lucid response.

There are cultures where, if one’s parents bought one’s children a house, it would be seems and an addition to the family’s wealth, and families then protect those assets and distribute them as required among subsequent generations as needed to protect and improve the family’s prospect for prosperity.

Of course we see that type of family centric lifestyle as barbaric and we expect each child to flee the nest and keep in touch. But I don’t see your Dad’s offer of assistance as being anything not fitting of modern Britain. I can’t remember if you said you had kids, and I can’t scroll back and see, but it is a very natural instinct to want to pass the fruits of one’s labour onto one’s children. The idea that generations have now been raised to believe that inheritance is in some way evil and unjust is a very malignant sign or the way our country may develop.

We are a 45K income household. So DH is earning what you are earning. I’m a stay at home mum. We don’t live in London. We’d never be able to afford it. But we save £500 a month out of out £2800 income, and with CB we still have about £200 breathing room when all the bills and food are taken care of. I fully expect that £200 to be eaten up by energy bills hikes, council tax hikes, Internet, mobile phone, etc. hikes all happening at the beginning of the next tax year. And we rent privately, we received no benefits apart from CB. We don’t own a house. We’re saving for a deposit.

So £45K is very doable outside of London. That’s one salary for most working professionals. One train driver salary. Yes, maybe it would be a pinch at 28K, but then we’d qualify for social housing and UC too.

You say yourself that you are I. The top 10% of earning families in our country. That places you close to the top 2% richest families in the world. And you’ve come from money. You must surely appreciate that your view of the poor and their finances is very different to those who have lived it and learned to work their way out of it.

Show quote history

My left wing views were actually shaped after meeting my DH and living with his family (they had a house in London where I stayed in the first few years). My DH is from the same university as me and we studied the same course. But he is on the other end of the income spectrum; he was on free school meals..he received no secular education until secondary school (no English or maths ) as he attended an ultra orthodox Jewish school. When I first met him, he had no money for lunch as he was waiting for his student loan payment to come through..we had very little money when we first got married at 22 and 24. So yes while my DH still thinks he earns very little, I suppose he has worked his way out of poverty as he is now a higher rate taxpayer, owns a London flat, only has 12 k of student loan left to pay and goes on multiple overseas holidays. Due to his pay, we would not qualify for child benefit which is funny cos family allowance was a big chunk of his family's income when he was little. Hewould never vote Tory. He is allergic to the word 'aspirarion' as he thinks it's a con to trick poor people into voting Tory.

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 01:24

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 01:22

My left wing views were actually shaped after meeting my DH and living with his family (they had a house in London where I stayed in the first few years). My DH is from the same university as me and we studied the same course. But he is on the other end of the income spectrum; he was on free school meals..he received no secular education until secondary school (no English or maths ) as he attended an ultra orthodox Jewish school. When I first met him, he had no money for lunch as he was waiting for his student loan payment to come through..we had very little money when we first got married at 22 and 24. So yes while my DH still thinks he earns very little, I suppose he has worked his way out of poverty as he is now a higher rate taxpayer, owns a London flat, only has 12 k of student loan left to pay and goes on multiple overseas holidays. Due to his pay, we would not qualify for child benefit which is funny cos family allowance was a big chunk of his family's income when he was little. Hewould never vote Tory. He is allergic to the word 'aspirarion' as he thinks it's a con to trick poor people into voting Tory.

Show quote history

*aspiration!

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 01:57

buildingourdreams · 12/02/2023 21:22

My wages are okay ! If I was on minimum wage or part time I'd get it !

It's not wages that are the issue imo it's the cost of everything and I don't buy into all this bullshit like oh it's cos of the Ukrainian war etc. it's because companies know they can price gouge so they continue doing it ! Like do you think all the supermarkets aren't making a fuck load of money ?? Has anyone seen the profits some of the Energy companies have recently declared for example ? Do you think my landlord doesn't make a shit ton of profit on my rent ?? If I had a mortgage for the same house it would be less than my rent according to the calculators online. but no one will give us one as we have no deposit

I've had enough honestly 🤦‍♀️

OP I have to disagree, it's wages.

Most countries experience high energy costs... But I had a chat with my DH's German cousin's boyfriend. He has a very ordinary job - mortgage free, not worried about heating in the slightest and driving a BMW. He isn't that old either- late 30s, I would probably say. The reason why inflation hits the UK so badly is because of the many people on low wages. For many of them, food could be practically free and they would still struggle. We have just been accustomed to low wages for so long that we don't realize we are getting poorer everyday.

Your landlord may not make a shit ton of profit on rent. I know if I rented out my flat, I would be making a loss and indeed my neighbour who rented out her flat is barely breaking even. We have to pay 40% tax (but would never have been able to buy the property in the first place if one of us wasn't on 40% tax). The landlords who make a profit are those with huge portfolios so they can spread the risk - another example of how the system is designed for those with genuine wealth not the middle class.. but at the same time, rent is very expensive due to lack of supply .

mackthepony · 14/02/2023 02:10

Op, I think people have been really harsh with you on here, especially criticising you about not knowing a ton about the Tories and politics.

What really stands out to me is how RIGHT you are about the current situation. It is shit. You shouldn't have to pay so much for food, rent and heat. You DO deserve more and it's not some fucking race to the bottom, put another sweater on and stop whinging about utilities attitude that we should just suffer through.

If I were you I'd be either moving away and trying to buy a house or moving abroad.

You would probably be wealthier not working actually.

Which says it all

treasurefoil · 14/02/2023 02:30

That reply from @Greenfairydust was shocking. Your like us, but asking for more help and information but get destroyed. It's disgusting. Not long and people will be priced out of living. Only the rich will find a way to get richer. We are on the brink of death and being told how we vote is the problem is just crap. Because no political party would do better now

echt · 14/02/2023 03:19

Because no political party would do better now

The Tories dfepend on this viewpoint to keep getting in.

ElliF · 14/02/2023 05:28

TheLostGiraffe · 13/02/2023 23:57

That's the nail on the head. Salariesneed to increase, massively. The only way that can happen is increased productivity. That means getting rid of all of the perverse incentives and bottlenecks in the tax system, and massively increasing business investment (which unsurprisingly has fallen even further off a cliff since 2016 - rejoining the single market and customs union would be a good start if people want any prospect of significant payrises).

Show quote history

Serious question then...

So, where does the money come from to increase salaries across the board?
Train drivers just got 18% in London. It helps and it was as good as they realistically could have hoped for. But it barely scratches the surface of the pain working families are feeling in London.

So let’s say we want to give everyone in the UK below £80K a 50% pay increase, and a similar increase in benefits. That’s what... £1.6Trillion? The US prints much more than that a year. So within the realms to possibility.

Where does the £1.6Trillion a year come from? Do we increase taxes on corporations? Do we print government bonds? How do we get the benefit of the £1.6Trillion a year without inflating the money supply?

ElliF · 14/02/2023 05:42

socialmedia23 · 14/02/2023 00:46

My parents are pretty traditional, like I said before, my dad bought a house with his parents and we lived together until they both passed on. But my dad has always raised me to believe that I should earn my own money and not be dependent on family money. There is a Chinese saying- even if there is a mountain of money, if you just sit on it and eat, it will vanish into thin air. My parents are self made, and they don't want their money to vanish! It is not a bad thing for a family to pool resources but I think that there should be an affordable option for those without families with resources.

The thing is if you allow families to pass on this kind of wealth tax free, it will mean we collectively get poorer. My parents might be rich but they are not billionaires. And wealth is relative. It is entirely possible that in a generation, £1 million would be the entry level price for an apartment in Manchester and so if you were someone in the North relying on your 500k inheritance to get on the housing ladder, you would be stuffed. If you get £100 and someone else gets £1000, you have just gotten poorer. It's different with salaried employment as that is work that contributes to the country's GDP and has a knock on effect. It will also benefit local businesses and services Wealth on the other hand is largely not spent except on assets. Great wealth and low salaries lead to great inequality.

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Well put, especially the last bit.
I am all for taxing inheritances. The problem seems to be that we allow the formation of private trust funds and shelter wealth within them why can be passed from person to person tax free.
We have huge swathes of our population already living their lives on benefits and in subsidised housing. I don’t see that creating dependency on the state for food and shelter helps people. I can see that it is desirable as a control mechanism. But at the end of the day if your employer owns your home and pays you your wages, are you not just a slave to the owner by some other name?