I let my mum down when she was dying

[theworldcanbeshit]

I feel worthless, and like I'm disappearing.

Coming back to my thread months later because I'm still suffering mentally over this. Not constantly but regularly. The guilt lessens for a time but always comes back. It has been really vicious the last few days and I almost had a full blown panic attack just now.

I don't know how to deal with this. Counselling has not really helped with this part.

Everyone says you have to feel all the feelings, not stuff them down, to work through them. But when I let my natural feelings come up it's always awful.

I honestly do think this is normal. I don’t really know what else to say other than reassure you that you couldn’t have done any more and to tell you that as a mum, I would never, ever want my children to
feel like this, your mum would be exactly the same. It’s a traumatic experience you’ve been through, with someone very very close, it’s not going to be something you can just shake off and move on from.

Do you have any close family you can talk to? Have you discussed this feeling of guilt in counselling? And have you spoken to your GP about nearly having panic attacks? You might benefit from some anti anxiety medication.

Thank you @Clarabell77 yes I have discussed in counselling. It didn't really do anything.

I have beta blockers to take ad hoc from my GP, which I do take when I need to. They don't help with the thinking side of things though they do help physically.

As part of my job I’ve seen a lot of patients die and who were dying, they made awful noises, the ones we managed to resuscitate never remembered anything even though they seemed somewhat aware and were making noises and moving, these are involuntary noises and movements that are part of the dying process. As the brain is shutting down it does some bizarre things to the body. Please don’t think she was aware and trying to get you to do something. You did the only thing you could, you got help, there was nothing more you could have done.

I know. I know but it feels like I should have ensured there was far more morphone and other drugs given at an earlier point, it feels like I should have anticipated the right time to really up the medication and it feels like I fucked that up.

How could I not have known?

Morphine

@theworldcanbeshit it wasn’t your job to know. You didn’t let your mum down.
you were there with her.

as others have said, breathing changes and involuntary noises are part of the dying process and more distressing for relatives than the patient.

what ifs are a normal part of the grieving process but you didn’t let your mum down 💐

Gently, you're not a medical expert. You weren't there for that; you were there to support your mum. She wouldn't want you still to be ruminating about this all these months later. She'd want you to remember her fondly but to be living your life.

Could you have a 'death debrief' with the hospice nurse? Do you think that might help to reassure you?

You did nothing wrong. Nothing at all. You have nothing to feel guilty for.

Big hugs OP. Try to remember that your Mum would not want you to be suffering like this. She was in a place with professionals whose job it was to help her through the process medically. Your job was just to be with her and love her and you did that.

As a PP said there are threads out there, Reddit and so forth about people who "clinically died" and from what I've seen they report either nothingness or a great feeling of peace, I remember someone saying it's so much harder for the people who have to watch it than the person experiencing it. No they didn't absolutely die and they came back but the point is that they were not feeling great distress even with such bodily trauma.

Of course you can't have the absolute certainty of knowing her state of consciousness. But you can know you gave her all the love and support you had to give. Guilt is often something we are left with after a death and we always feel there was more we could have done. Somehow, to heal this, you'll need to find a way to let go. Not of her or your love for her but of clinging to the guilt. A way to put it down and let yourself breathe. And in this I'm sure you'd have your Mum's blessing.

Life and death are huge and frightening and we want so much to be in control, but we aren't. You weren't and couldn't have been in control of what was happening, the process took over and it is natural.

In some cultures there are rituals like chanting for the person who has passed, lighting candles or incense, and these can bring some comfort, don't know if anything like that would be meaningful to you. Or try talking to her and telling her how you feel, and try to make some kind of peaceful and loving connection with her or your memories of her? Forgive me if these suggestions aren't helpful.

All the best to you.

I'm a doctor and honestly, death comes in many different forms but most ( not all) deaths which are not sudden are characterised by noisy breathing as the body and brain shut down and protective reflexes are lost. It's traumatic for you as it can be shocking when you are not expecting it. It was just the process of dying and she would not have been aware of it herself.

I think it's trauma - normal counselling doesn't work you may need trauma focused cbt etc x

Hugs op, I had a very similar experience when my nan died and I ruminated over it for years. None of the talking therapy works on me because I am neurodiverse, perhaps you also need another way to come to terms with it? But please let go of any guilt, guilt is not productive.

Bottom line is you loved your mother and you were there for her. It feels especially frightening when a parental figure seems scared because we are used to them being in control and the grown up. But you were physically and emotionally there for her as I'm sure she had been for you.

These feelings do have a tendency to overwhelm you, especially at night so if you can reassure yourself with some of the good advice on here then go and watch, read or create something happy, funny or beautiful. Your mother would want her lasting legacy for you to be happy memories, I'm sure, not worrying over this.

Xxx

OP I feel exactly like you feel except my story is different. I think most people just think they could have done more.

Feeling that we could have done more or better or different for our loved ones in their last moments, days, weeks or months is normal. I'm sorry for your loss and that your mother's last moments were distressing for you.

My mum had dementia and died a few weeks after a stroke. I know she was sometimes scared and confused in hospital. She told me. I do think about how I would do things differently if I could but I try not to dwell too much. It comforts me to know that though I wasn't there for her last moments, those moments were short compared to the love and care I was able to show her in the year before she died.

I hope, in time, you can also be comforted knowing that you were there for her in whatever way you managed to be.

My stepdad whos passed now, had cirrhosis...he was end of life care many times, but came back, many times..all the medics were surprised when he was many times given end life care. I went to see him a lot...3 of those occasions when we were told he was close to death...he did the choking sounds... opened his eyes, one occasion flapped his arms , acted like having a fit, crackling in chest...etc. he came round everytime, when he had recovered he remembered absolutely nothing. That gave us comfort that when he did eventually pass and we heard the choking, rattling sound that he wouldn't know about it.

I know. I know but it feels like I should have ensured there was far more morphine and other drugs given at an earlier point, it feels like I should have anticipated the right time to really up the medication and it feels like I fucked that up. How could I not have known?

Oh Lovey - you did all you could. Sending hugs. You were with her, you loved her and you called for a nurse. You couldn't possibly have anticipated the right time to up the medication - you are not a medic and that was their job. If you had done that and somehow persuaded the medics to up the medication, much earlier, you would almost certainly be feeling guilty that she died sooner as a result of that, because you wouldn't have seen and heard what you did.

I posted before about my late Mother (93). She fell and had a devastating stroke. On admission they gave her a 30% chance of still being alive after 30 days. 5 days in they said it was 70%. She had aspirational pneumonia as a result of not being able to swallow and on antibiotics. She was deemed incapable of making her own decisions and we had POA. If she had recovered she would have been in a care home and with no quality of life. We stopped the antibiotics about 4 days into them and she died a couple of days later. I still feel guilty sometimes about that, but have to remind myself it was for the best.

It's part of the grieving process that we think 'if only' and it will return from time to time, I'm sorry. I so feel for you. Your Mother wouldn't have wanted you to feel so guilty and be so full of angst. She loved you. This first Christmas without her, coming up will be a very difficult time for you and has no doubt contributed to the strength of your feelings right now. We went away for a few nights to a hotel, the first Christmas after my Mother passed, to do something different and to make it easier. I know I would have been totally in pieces if we had stayed home as usual. I still had a few cries while we were away, but it did help

Can you do something similar?

Also it's the HCPs job to monitor symptoms and treat as needed for symptom control. It really is.

Exactly.

It sounds like you did the perfect thing, you didn't let your mum down. The hospice staff and health care professionals were in charge of the medication, not you. You were there and your mum will have known that you loved her, that's everything.

OP, the fact that you're still feeling so bad about this isn't, in my view, evidence that you failed your mum but rather it shows what a loving daughter you were, and still are.

I think you said you've suffered previous bereavements too. As I'm sure you know, the relationship you have with loved ones doesn't end when they pass away, it just changes. They still live on in your heart and feel very present to you.

I had three close family bereavements in quick succession some years ago, and I sometimes still feel a sense of failure in regard to two of them. But I know realistically at the time I couldn't have done much more. Hindsight can be a terrible thing: you look back and convince yourself that you could have done x, y and z, whereas when you're actually experiencing these things, the reality is far more confusing and contradictory.

Please believe that it will get easier.

Please be kind to yourself. It's unlikely she was scared - many family members ask if their loved are in pain or scared, but at this stage of unconsciousness, it's unlikely. Your mum is at peace now and she would want you to be at peace with yourself too. Look after yourself.

@theworldcanbeshit sending hugs and strength.

You have had some good advice from medical people who describe what happens as someone is dying. I can back that up - I was with my dad when he died. He was lifting an arm as if reaching out. The nurse explained it was involuntary. He expelled a loud gurgling breath just after we thought he'd gone. The nurse explained about it being a reflux and again involuntary.

It wasn't your job to decide medication levels. It was your job to be a loving daughter which your posts show you were and still are.

Grieving can take a long time. You're still coming to terms with losing your mum. I'm sorry that counselling hasn't helped but I hope the explanations from people on this thread are giving you some reassurance.

I work in this area. Every death is different - the way it looks, the way it sounds. If she was in a hospice, her pain was being managed - this is their main focus.

It sounds like you and your mum loved each other very much. I don't think she would want you to feel this way.

Could you try to frame it that way? That to honour your mum, you focus on the love you shared and happy memories.

You were there for your mum to comfort her and did everything you could do. Don’t be so hard on yourself it must of been very traumatic to witness. Your grieving, be kind to yourself I’m sure your mum wouldn’t want you thinking you let her down

I’ve felt so sad reading your responses. You did nothing apart from being a loving and caring daughter.

i hope you start to find a bit of peace with this because you sound exhausted by this weighing you down