Racism?

[Canyoubelieveit18]

My DD this year started at one of the top selective schools in London. Yesterday, I was having dinner with one of the mums in her year, who after a few drinks, blurted out how Asian the school is and how much she wishes it was a lot more white. She is white and I am Asian. I was stunned and didn’t know how to respond. I am so angry! Why so much racism and hate towards Asians whose children get into these schools on merit?

Racism is definitely not simply a belief that one race is better than the other. You might want to get more familiar with the difference between racism and prejudice because it certainly isn’t what you seem to think it is.

My DC, born in the 90s, went to selective London Day Schools. I recall no segregation within them. My DC have friendship groups containing Indian, Muslim, Chinese and Black young people - friends from school and still friends. All groups were heavily outnumbered by white children. I don't remember there being standoffishness among the parents.

In my experience people open up with racist thoughts when they think you are more like them than the ethnic group you are a part. At school this would manifest as 'I don't think like you as <<insert race>>'. Now it's implicit. I can't put some of the things that people have said to me as it would be outing, but the prejudice is breathtaking and from people in positions of power and influence who would like die rather than believe themselves to be prejudiced. Until people came get away from thinking that all racists/homophones etc are bad it will never change.

*homophobes... Typing on a phone is not my forte, add in auto correct.

Oh look, someone who has no understanding about racism and prejudice!

It wasn't "weird", it was racist.

School will likely not doing anything about it. All you can do is try to encourage your DD to have a diverse circle of friends as possible. For you, perhaps help on school trips, fairs etc. It will help you scope out who is worth getting to know but too shy to reach out themselves. Lots of women are frustrated with the cliques but don't feel confident reaching out to other women in the playground. I kept a wide acquaintance group and avoided the drama.

I do all of this. Big circle of friends. Try my best to get the girls to integrate. Only so much I can do with DH and working our bottoms off to get them through this prep school and the inherent societal prejudice we’re fighting. It’s all exhausting, we’re all on the hamster wheel!

I don't think there is anything else you can do other than accept that this is the status quo for now. I would focus on your other friends, as long as your youngest is happy.

These are not the type of people you want as your friends IME.

I worked in a lot of schools across London as a supply teacher back in the day, my most enjoyable day of the whole time was a class of mostly Asian children right in the centre of London, the children were so well behaved and respectful that they made teaching an absolute joy. My least enjoyable day was teaching in a class so segregated that all the white children sat on one side of the room and all the non white children sat on the other side. The atmosphere and behaviour was horrible and I would never have gone back.

I think it's the racial segregation that is the most upsetting thing about your child's school, why aren't the children mixing together? Maybe the other mother wishes there were more white kids because none of the groups mix, so it seems like there are not many potential friends for her children. It's such a sad situation though.

@choconut that corresponds with our experience at a supposedly "elite" cofe girls' school in sw London. It was disgracefully dysfunctional. Thankfully we had the money to move her at the end of Yr 8.

Some of the dc's primary friends went to a co-ed cofe comp, quite newly opened at the time. It appeared to be run on lines akin to apartheid. As most of the parents were proclaimed lefties, it was terrifying. Left enough to have principles above independent education, but not so far left to object to a Tale of Two Cities. I think they were probably intellectually superior but skint actually.

I’m actually really stressed about the segregation…it’s not what you see on an open day. I mean was I better off leaving them in a predominantly white state school??

@beethecrackon24995 my DD has had similar experiences. I mentioned previously that her friendship group call themselves United Nations and always got on really well at school. However a couple of the girls sometimes weren't' allowed' to go out with the group. No boys or drinking were involved in what they did, the parents just said no. It still happens now when they come home from University (second year). We assume it's different expectations in different cultures but it was a shame.

Her mother told me how her dd didn't play with other kids as her cousins were enough. I'll never forget that. I'd have been thought of as racist if I had said that to her mother.

How would that be racist? She said her dd only plays with cousins, not that she only plays with Asians.

I am white and think that if I had said the same thing someone may well have thought that I didn't want my child to play with children who were Asian. I still think it was off that she wouldn't let her child ever play with my daughter who lived a few doors away although they were friends at school. She may be a bigot or maybe she isn't but whatever her reason I felt a bit hurt for my dd. We had chatted a few times and got on well enough. That is life

@beethecrackon24995 amazing that you’ve made the thread about you, when it’s about an Asian woman being told there are too many Asian kids in the school.

Funny how because you don't like to read what I wrote you attack me for it. I expected at least a few responses like yours. My comment was because another poster commented she didn't understand why people don't want their white child mixing. I wanted to make her aware that not all white people feel like that and want their child to mix. It was relevant 😊

@beethecrackon24995 I didn’t attack you and your post was whataboutery.

To you, not everyone will see it like that. The op needs to know that not all white women want to keep their child away from Asian children. It's upsetting that she feels like this as it is awful that some people feel like that as I know plenty do. We live in sad times indeed.

That's sad. I went to private school from 11 to 16. I'm white but most of my friends were Asian. In my school at that time (30 years ago!) none of us cared whether we were pink, blue, black, white, Asian or whatever. We just got on and had fun.

It's sad to hear about the segregation. But then, sometimes people naturally hang about with others from similar backgrounds and with similar home experiences. Maybe they aren't segregating based on race/colour but because they feel more connected and share some values and experiences with the people they are associating with.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/ethnicitypaygapsingreatbritain/2019#ethnicity-breakdowns

According to the Office for National Statistics, people with an Indian or Chinese background earn above average in this country. For something which is expensive and discretionary like private education, you would expect to see more of people with these backgrounds.
Parents often send their children to private schools so they are mixing with the future elite of the country. I guess the OP's friend doesn't realise that the elite don't always look like her any more.

Average hourly pay difference of £2-£3 isn’t going to be driving the skewed picture that we see. Moreover, people who send their children to independent schools are not filthy rich.

Furthermore, grammar schools are free. So isn’t income driven unless you factor in money to pay for intense tutoring.

And Asians are not just Indians. The Asians at independent and grammar schools are not just Indians.

In a different note, I find the statistics interesting and gives weight to the drive to improve outcomes for white working class boys. If Indians are doing well, on average, then diversity and inclusion should focus on those who are losing out.

There is much to be said for the Asian population, in general, who pool resources, live together in large families, making it possible to move up the social ladder. Other cultures are much more individualistic. But I digress.

I should also point out that because these are averages, they mask the fact that there are a few incredibly wealthy Indians and Chinese that will skewed the average. The vast majority of Indians and Chinese remain disadvantaged.

There is still a gender pay gap and still a gap in opportunities and pay based on race. It would be irresponsible to use these average figures to conclude that most Indians or Chinese are living lives of luxury.

I am really sorry to hear this.
Why do people think they have the right to say such awful things?
My recent post was about racism too. A new-ish family member said something horribly racist too in front of my family who are mixed race. They could not see that it was wrong and would not apologise for ages.
As awkward as it is I do think you should address this if you can. Maybe say you were really shocked at the comment and ask why did she feel appropriate to say it?