Racism?

[Canyoubelieveit18]

My DD this year started at one of the top selective schools in London. Yesterday, I was having dinner with one of the mums in her year, who after a few drinks, blurted out how Asian the school is and how much she wishes it was a lot more white. She is white and I am Asian. I was stunned and didn’t know how to respond. I am so angry! Why so much racism and hate towards Asians whose children get into these schools on merit?

The skewed population at these schools is simply because the asian immigrant parents want to give their children the best education possible. Hence they try and instil the value of hard work and perseverance in their children. Whilst the white parents snigger and patronise because they know their children may still get by because of white privilege.

Oh, this will kick off. There is a brown MN forum as well, in case it goes wrong here:)

It isn't the same in all independent schools. My daughter is in a smaller independent school in Midlands, and her older brothers were there before her. There isn't and has never been that sort of racism or social segregation at all. I think it reflects the demographic and the population the school serves, and an independent school in inner city London will be very different to one in rural Northamptonshire.

My genuine experience and observation is that rich or poor, Asian children are heavily tutored and are under a lot of pressure at home. To be fair, I speak of wealthy Asians as the people at my son’s school regardless of ethnicity could not legitimately be called poor.

White parents are bigger consumers of extra curricular activities, great big speeches about wanting their kids to be all-rounders, about mental well-being, etc.

Black, Chinese and other ethnicities are also big consumers of tutoring.

I’m not saying any approach is better than the other. It’s just my observation in my small corner.

Whatever is driving the segregation, the way things are isn’t serving the children or the country. Predominantly White, Black, Chinese, South Asian schools are not to be celebrated. Diversity enables them to have a richer experience and prepares them better for a diverse world of work and life.

Genius is not as common as some parents would have you think and most parents say their child is “naturally bright” 😀

Yes, can see it slowly starting to go tits up already 😁

That’s ridiculous. Are Asian parents the only ones instilling the value of hard work and perseverance in their children? White, Black, Chinese, inter-racial families and other ethnicities don’t?

If that’s the story you want to tell yourself then fine.

There is, in my view, prejudice on the part of all sides. But the fact is this, all ethnicities including Asians are turned off by predominantly Asian independent schools.

I think you have a bit of an issue with the school your children attend. I would look elsewhere. It's not good for you or your children to be in the environment you have described!!

@Motherparent19 i am all for diversity too and I agree with you that the Asian parents place more emphasis on academics. However, there is a reason for that. We feel it is only through education that there can be some form of social mobility for our people. It is very easy for the white parents to patronise us on that and to instead focus on extracurriculars a lot more. They can afford to do that. We can’t.

Did she say it in those words particularly? Or was it more like, "I do wish there was a better balance in the ethnicity amongst the kids."

The sentiment is still somewhat racist, but the place it is emerging from may not be as hateful as you suppose.

There is a Brown Mumsnet as well as a Black mumsnet and this main one is the white mumsnet? Proves the point about segregation the OP mentioned. It starts at schools and continues throughout.

Such a pathetic victim blaming response.

It exists because main MN is always trying to tell us what racism is, and why we have imagined it.

So sorry OP. I saw your remark about the cliques at the school and it reminded me of a teaching job I had in Fulham in the early 80's. I was the only white person there, it was called the Colebrooke Social Cultural and Welfare Association. The mixed age adult all female students were from Jamaica, Barbados, St Lucia, Dominica - they all stayed in their various friendship groups. There was some tension in the group and a few fights, unfortunately, The St Lucia girls stayed apart from the rest and spoke to each other in patois. It was a great life experience for me as a 23 year old, the majority did get jobs at the end of the course.

Don’t you think that is changing? The buzz now is “all rounded” and this is becoming more and more important at interviews. More and more important at Oxbridge and now State schools are being favoured. The usual academic/education route to social mobility is changing.

We all know that in the world of work it is not about your scores at school but “soft skills”. How you fit in and so on.

@MeetPi nope. It was all put blatantly. How she wished it was less Asian.

As a first generation South Asian immigrant, I neither have the social connections nor any form of significant family money in order to ensure my child's future. I really only know a handful of people in our community and some colleagues at work. There is no buzzing expat community for South Asian immigrants unlike what you see for the Brits abroad. My children don't have a fallback option and I would very much prefer that they don't need to rely on benefits in the future. Otherwise it defeats the whole purpose of our immigration which has been quite painful and unpleasant in certain aspects. However, what we can control is their education. And that is where we choose to spend our money on.

Oh for goodness sake, really, we're still on this shit?
I remember the hassle and racism in the setting up of the Black Mumsnetters board, it was ridiculous the outrage.
It's nothing to do with segregation, it's people wanting to talk about issues that affect them, their experiences in life etc that white people wouldn't have a clue about (I include myself in that)
I didn't know there was a "brown" board too since, that's great there's a space there too

@Motherparent19 you think oxbridge is focusing on soft skills when they take kids from state schools? Of course not! It’s still about academics. Extracurriculars are the cherry on top.

How well do you know her? Was it just the two of you at the dinner? I just find it curious she was make this remark to you, an Asian person, at a dinner with you. I'm not doubting you, just questioning her motivations.

@MeetPi yes just us two. She has been an acquaintance of mine for a few years now and we got together as our children are now at the same school. I was dumbfounded too at her comment!

@DressDilemma couldn’t agree more!

She is white and I am Asian. I was stunned and didn’t know how to respond. I am so angry! Why so much racism and hate towards Asians whose children get into these schools on merit?

Well you'll never know until you ask her.

I get that you were too stunned/angry etc to ask at the time, so ask her tomorrow by text or something?

Private schools often amplify prejudice whether it be race, wealth, class, religion or all of the above. I have heard similar comments spoken by racists and occasionally non racists. For the racists, it is irrational contempt and/or jealousy. It never ceases to amaze me how some people feel so little shame for their ignorance. For the non racists it is generally around how the social dynamic has changed because a large percentage of the student body will not or cannot socialise.

My preference would have been for my children to go to a more economically and racially diverse school. But in the end we could have it all. The trade offs were race/religion/ economics (we were not even considering single gender). We chose economically diverse. Simply because its hard enough being a minority in white country let alone a minority in another minority or religion dominated group.

In terms of soft skills, I was referring to the world of work.

Regarding Oxbridge, they have interviews and personal statements. It’s not all just down to your grades. Plus they are prepared to look favourably at the grades of children from States school. It’s not all just about whose A* is the shiniest.

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting your last sentence is very impactful.