Racism?

[Canyoubelieveit18]

My DD this year started at one of the top selective schools in London. Yesterday, I was having dinner with one of the mums in her year, who after a few drinks, blurted out how Asian the school is and how much she wishes it was a lot more white. She is white and I am Asian. I was stunned and didn’t know how to respond. I am so angry! Why so much racism and hate towards Asians whose children get into these schools on merit?

It is segregation though regardless of the purpose of the segregation or whose is to be blamed for the need for segregation. Segregation it is.

Should there be a Chinese mumsnet, mixed race mumsnet? The fact that each group wants its own mumsnet suggest they feel a safe space can only be offered by people in their racial grouping.

Have you ever had a idea she have thoughts like this? The words "white" and "Asian" don't just pop out of nowhere, especially at dinner with your friend who happens to be Asian.

I was with you until you said this I am afraid. That's a lazy stereotype too.

You are mistaken. Oxbridge don't give a fig about extracurricular. It's all about supra.

Should there be a Chinese mumsnet, mixed race mumsnet?
Yes, why not if people felt they wanted a space?
Why would it bother you?

The fact that each group wants its own mumsnet suggest they feel a safe space can only be offered by people in their racial grouping.
You've spectacularly missed my point which was that it isn't about segregating, people can still want to be on the main boards but have another space for more specialised knowledge and experiences.

It actually goes a bit further than that. This is something I've heard before on the central London circuit and personally I always challenge it on the spot. I'm not Asian so probably hear it more than you would.

If you mean East Asian: In the 80s and 90s we had 2 big immigration waves (2nd gen after Vietnam war, and Cantonese after the sino agreement).

There simply isn't a new wave (unless they're breaking down Mandarin vs Cantonese speaking) and these people are openly racist and gate keepy.

Importantly a parent today was a child in the 80s so what rock were they under??

No independent school today in London has more Asian students as a ratio than most schools in London 30-40 years ago. I can just compare any school photo of me vs DS at the same age. It is not skewed they are racist. Independent schools eventually need to mirror the city they're in.

If you meant South Asian I feel central London independent schools are underrepresented.

No need to start an argument. I was in no way saying that at all, I was angry on her behalf and wish she'd been able to say something, to stop that woman in her tracks. Ffs! Sick of this forum at times, where numpties try and put words in your mouth @MissTrip82 🙄

Someone made a point earlier that in her child’s school, children segregate themselves based on their race. They are part of the general school population but then feel the need to hang out only with those who look like them.

It is segregating. Even though it is self imposed segregation to create a safe space, it is a problem because it ought not to be so. It simply shows society is not really improving on that front and it continues even into adulthood eg, mumsnet safe spaces based on race.

Can you not see the problem? Will there ever not be a need for children and adults to search out safe spaces based on race?

I think that she said what a lot of people think. In vino veritas. But oddly she seems to view the OP as one of 'us', not one of 'them'.

Our local Grammar Schools are much more ethnically diverse than the local area. A lot of DC come in from surrounding areas. The local high schools are mainly white.

My DC's friends from her girl's Grammar described themselves as like the United Nations. A mix of Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, Polish and Hungarian - and DD who is white British. They like that.

But while walking DDog I came across people who were unhappy about the diversity. Others coming in taking up places at 'their' schools. Unexpected people.

'Should there be a Chinese mumsnet, mixed race mumsnet? The fact that each group wants its own mumsnet suggest they feel a safe space can only be offered by people in their racial grouping.'

Well yes... because of the racism.
It's on this thread albeit carefully put and people should have a place they can talk to have conversations about shared experiences without others (white people like me usually) coming in and telling them they are wrong or how to resolve a problem they did not create.

Definitely happening!! My DDs are mixed heritage and my eldest is much more ‘white passing’. All her friends are white!!!!! My youngest looks more ‘Asian’ all her friends are Asian. All the white girls play together and all the Asian girls play together. Our state primary they were the only Asian girls (we still live in the same area it’s a white area) but the prep attracts lots of Asian and Chinese kids.

I’m totally befuddled!!

I’m often the only Asian mum with white mum friends - I find it really frustrating. With my youngest it’s like the white mums don’t talk to me!!

There is so much segregation. I don’t know what the school is doing about it.

That's appalling!

I am too because it signals that there will be no significant progress in terms of mindset. It is just surface acceptance of each other but a continued (secret) feeling of us and them on racial lines.

It’s sad.

Our local private school also has a very large number who are Asians, but they are from East Asia (china/Japan/Korea etc) so perhaps her racism is aimed at this section of the community rather than South Asia? I'm assuming you are from South Asia?

If this is the case maybe she doesn't think you are actually 'other'? Not nice either way.

@purpledalmation yes I think that was the case. It doesn’t matter though as like you said it’s still offensive

My DDs old school in the Midlands has become more and more Asian. It happens to be in a now very Asian area. Lots of ex parents say they wouldn’t send their children there now.

In my DDs era the Asian girls very much kept to their own group. And left at 16. She had one friend who tried to break the mould but her father was very controlling of her. I remember she came to my DDs 16th party but could only stay an hour.

The Asian boys stayed on to 6th form and all did pharmacy at University.

Different cultures🤷‍♀️

What is the reason the ex parents give for that? What is so off-putting for letting your child study with Asians? I am genuinely interested to find out.

I’m not absolutely sure. Probably rooted in racism. It did change the intrinsic nature of the school though and also reduced the friendship pool.

As with all cultures, folk prefer to stay with their own.

Two local schools were knocked down and a big new one built. One had been all ethnic minority the other almost exclusively white. The hope was to mix the children to try and help problems in the area. When I drive past at the end of the school day each group walking home is either white, black or brown.

I’ve just had the conversation with my Asian mum and she’s non the wiser. But said it’s really what it’s always been, people connect with their own. But I feel now being the third generation of my family in this country that I belong here! I’ve only been to the country of our origin once. I feel there is a real reluctance even in my DH family to accept that my DDs are half Asian. It’s like they never talk about it but will say things like ‘your weddings are so loud’ ‘you have so many cousins’ but in a condescending way!! I am so glad my DDs have my culture as well and my husband’s hopefully it’ll help them navigate this crazy segregated country we live in.

I've noticed this too. Recent experience of the 7+ and having visited a number of London selective schools, it was always the south Asian community that was seen negatively by the parents in my son's prep school. One school is known to have a significant Jewish student population which reflects the local area and another school had a noticeable Chinese/East Asian population and everyone was fine with that. Another school is known to have many Russian families and that was fine too. It was only a school with a similarly sized south Asian population that was singled out by parents.

Seems that even third and fourth generation south Asians are still considered immigrants and the white London prep school families don't want their children to be around them. People are still holding onto old stereotypes of pushy south Asian families who have little interaction with the wider community when in actual fact many of the parents are city professionals, raised and educated in the same system and culturally very much assimilated.

It's just plain racisms towards south Asians. And I've had a few heated discussions with parents about the comments they've made.

Fwiw my dd went to state primary and private secondary. In both schools her friends were only Asian. One bf was black. She's never had a close white friend. She's white. One thing sadly was clear though, in all friendships she never saw any of them outside of school (accept her friend that was black) unless she had a birthday gathering and even then one of the girls never came. My neice who went to North London collegiate had the same experience. I think there are varying reasons for this but put it down mostly to culture. An Asian girl who was at dds school and lived at the top of our road was invited one summer to come over and play with dd when in primary. Her mother told me how her dd didn't play with other kids as her cousins were enough. I'll never forget that. I'd have been thought of as racist if I had said that to her mother. There is a grammar at the top of our road. We went to the open day. I would say it is pretty much all Asian girls there. I read a conversation on elevenplus site years ago where white mothers were accused of being racist by not sending their dds there which imop was lazy. There definitely would have been an element of that for some white mothers however I would have been thrilled if dd had got in but competition was fierce. Even the cleverest girls in dds school didn't get in and they were seriously clever. I live in East London. I think it's very important that people mix and respect each others cultures. I do understand why people that don't mix don't mix but it doesn't help towards living in harmony together long term.

You right, our society is not improving, or at least not enough. As a minority I have conversations with people from other different minority groups that they would not have with non minority groups. The issues are the same as when I was a child. Racism in schools and the wider world is pretty much dismissed (just ignore it, its a joke) or more commonly now pushed back upon as being woke. Teachers and their leaders are either disinterested or ineffective because they don't know how to address it. Social media and app based private groups can show horrific levels of prejudice and encourage rape culture and other nasties in even the 'naciest' children. DC's have been quite open and have shown me how horrific it is. Often in schools prejudice and unconcious bias has been allowed to persist unchallenged as part of childrens daily lives it is not surprising that they can end up unconsciously or consciously self segregating. They will gravitating towards people who are more like them, where they will have a break from being othered. Teenage friendship groups tend not to be as fluid as adult groups, add in parental and societal prejudices for good measure. Eh voila! Segregation.

Something needs to be done to create a safe more tolerant space in schools.

What a weird thing to say.
Racism is the belief that ones race is better than another (inherently).

She didn't say that, though I would really want to dig down into why she wants more white people at the school. If her child is white and most of the children are Asian it may make sense that she wants her child to feel more connected and identify with other students. But it is very weird. Who says that!?