To think a TA is not always beneficial

[Dancedanceswim]

I should clarify that I’m both a TA myself and a mum of a (now adult) ASD child. I’m in now way against TA’s in general. This is specific to one child (mild ASD/ what would have been called Aspergers) I know of where I think that, in that case, him having a 1-1 TA is an error:

• firstly, having a TA means that the whole experience at primary school is very “managed” and a bit sterile which may make it much harder for him to cope at secondary
• This is an unpopular opinion but school really isn’t all about learning - the social aspect is vital. Therefore, if a child is sat with a TA all the time they won’t be able to freely socialise with their peers or enjoy any kind of childish behaviour without being constantly managed and having someone watching them
• They’re already self conscious about being different- surely sitting a TA next to them will only make them feel more different to their peers. Also, it will signal to the other kids that they are different and potentially make them a target for bullying/ socially being ostracised
• This child is actually very bright and there are many other kids in the class who could use 1-1 help in terms of improving their progress with work.

The reason they have a TA is because their parents absolutely fought tooth and nail. However, in my opinion I’m not sure it’s actually benefiting this child and this is perhaps a theme throughout.

This is about one child but I think in more general terms that while TA’s can be a valuable asset in the classroom and for some children can be brilliant, they’re not always beneficial. Aibu?

A TA should be directed by the teacher. Unfortunately some 1-to-1s have no training and/or are left to their own devices. Any problems should be brought to the teacher's attention first.

By secondary age, very few SEN pupils in a mainsteam school like the one I work in want "their" TA hanging around them constantly singling them out as different. TAs have to be very sensitive to this or the pupil could and sometimes does reject TA support entirely. That is why we help other pupils also, to make it appear that we are more like general classroom support whereas in fact we are keeping a close eye on the child we are there to support.

If you genuinely think that is the main reason why 1:1s are used to support others that is a very naive view. The biggest reason by far 1:1s are used to help others is for the benefit of others/the school, not because it is in the best interests of the child with full time 1:1 specified and quantified in F.

@wellbehavedwomenseldommakehistory I completely agree, that’s why I said parents should be supported to. There are many parents who, for a multitude of complex reasons, can’t or don’t feel able to advocate themselves or advocate alone &/or can’t or don’t feel able to access support services. But for the majority of those parents the right support can overcome the barriers. That’s not to say it’s easy or the first kind of support is the right one for that particular family. Or that they do actually receive that support (but they should).

There are services that can hand hand all the way through the process for free where needed. I work for a local independent charity (truly independent, not like SENDIASS who is in the LA’s pocket) that supports parents of disabled children, not just focused on EHCPs but it forms a large part of the caseload. I, and other colleagues, when needed, basically undertake the whole process. I know there are other charities in other LAs who do similar.

If people can’t afford to access IPSEA training they often have free or vastly reduced prices for those unable to afford it.

At my children’s school a TA is just that. A 1:1 is a 1:1 and they are completely different roles with different expectations. Children with a 1:1 can still play with others, depending upon their EHCP, as some have them for differing reasons and did some children, having a 1:1 is the difference between them attending mainstream school or not (and usually mainstream school is the better option for them).

You're right. A 1:1 is a specific role. In our area they're still called TAs although some schools differentiate between TAs and LSAs (with TAs being classroom assistants and LSAs being 1:1s). My child's is called a '1:1 TA' and they also have in the school 'class TAs' (though not many, and those they do have actually end up being used as 1:1s for those children who do not have EHCP provision to fund their own).

A good 1:1 TA will support the child, if they're able, to play/interact/socialise/participate. Not being stuck to them like glue, perhaps setting up a game at break, then stepping back and observing. They can oil the wheels to help with these sorts of interactions. They might do small group work if it's within the EHCP. My child has full time 1:1 but also provision for weekly work with up for four others, plus social skills building activities with 1 or 2 other children at a time. They also spend time doing interventions 1:1 in a quiet space which help to teach and improve social skills.

A 1:1 TA does not, and should not mean that the child is isolated and not able to interact with the other children or participate in class. If a child does need this level of support because they really cannot cope with any interaction with other children (and some do) then I would be questioning if mainstream education, or that environment, is the best place for them. Unfortunately with the lack of special school places it is not easy to access them!

@TwilightSilhouette

I think that is a good strategy to some extent and obviously you put your EH first

One pupil used to ask me to help the others (this was prior EH)

I’ve been a TA for 12 years and no one tells me how to behave in a classroom. I behave the way I think is most beneficial for the children in the room, especially the ones with SEN. The senior leadership group rarely see TAs in the classroom as they tend to take the top set classes if they teach at all.
Occasionally a SEND child will need a lot of 1:1 support and then I will provide it though I feel sad for them because as I said before, having a TA sat with them all the time will prevent normal peer friendships from developing. But most pupils by the time they are teenagers don’t want a TA with them all the time on a 1:1 basis so we tend to walk away, help other pupils then return to check they are still working/able to understand the work

But that’s the problem. It’s not for you or the school to decide to “behave the way I think is most beneficial for the children in the room, especially the ones with SEN.”

An EHCP is a legal document. If full time 1:1 is specified and quantified in an EHCP it must be provided. To not provide it is unlawful and leaves the school and LA open to legal proceedings. It’s not for you or the school to decide differently.

A good 1:1, trained well and deployed correctly does not need to “prevent normal peer friendships from developing.”

Posted too soon, on my last sentence, for some DC their SEN will prevent or hinder “normal peer friendships from developing” regardless of whether there is a 1:1 present or not.

Now you sound unrealistic. I know what goes on in classrooms in reality not what is on a statement, do you? I have dozens of TA friends who talk honestly about their experiences, do you?

Isn't that diminishing of the expertise of the teacher and TAs though

All my posts are realistic. Just because you think it is acceptable to act unlawfully doesn’t make my posts unrealistic.

What part of my post acknowledging for some DC their SEN will prevent or hinder “normal peer friendships from developing” regardless or whether 1:1 is provided or or not is unrealistic?

I am perfectly aware of what goes on in classrooms. I’m am also perfectly aware an EHCP is a legal document and the SEP within it must be provided. I have helped hundreds of parents enforce their DC’s EHCP where schools and TAs like you think they can ignore the DC’s EHCP.

Many LAs, schools and staff, including TAs, act unlawfully, that doesn’t excuse it. Good luck defending a disability discrimination case or JR on the basis you think the SEP specified and quantified doesn’t need to be provided.

No it’s not. It’s acknowledging the EHCP is a legal document that must be adhered to. It’s not optional. The SEP within it stems from assessments from professionals far more qualified to make decisions on what SEP is necessary. LAs and schools wouldn’t be able to successfully defend a disability discrimination case or JR on the basis teachers and TAs thought they had the expertise to decide whether SEP specified and quantified in F needed to be provided.

I don't think educators ignore it but they are not working in an ideal world

Not providing the SEP specified and quantified in F is ignoring it. It is ignoring the fact it must be provided.

@woodhill not at all. The EHCP is based on the child's needs . While a case can be made about a specific thing mentioned that is no longer needed/applicable (toileting needs or getting changed for example that can sometimes change before the document is reviews) we can't just pick and choose .

Imagine an elderly person with a specific care plan and medication, and one of the carers deciding they don't need the meds, or they change them or whatever with no review,no proof, no other medical professionals involved. Would you think that having to stick to a plan is undermining their experience?

There's a reason children get an EHCP. It is for their safety,the safety or staff and peers and to enable them to actually access education. It is a lengthy and difficult process , they don't just get handed out willy nilly or for spurious reasons.

You sound so up yourself honestly. You wouldn’t make a good TA because you’re argumentative and have a superiority complex. You think what’s written down in a document is more important than being empathetic and treating each child like an individual who may or may not want a TA sitting next to them. Guess what? You can’t force a child to accept help from a TA no matter what is written on their EHCP. There are ways of getting them to like you and accept your help but forcing it is not one of them.
You sound like some kind of solicitor or similar. Making money from picking apart teachers and TAs. Pointless to debate any further as you’re just ticking boxes to see if you can win a case that will take even more money out of a broken system.

Interestingly we discussed this at our Governing Body.
The research presented agreed with the OPs perspective.

Your post would be laughable if it wasn’t so far from the truth.

I’m not a solicitor and have never made money out of individual cases. Over the years I have helped hundreds of people on MN and IRL secure provision for their DC and then enforce said provision if it isn’t provided completely free of charge.

Last year I started working very part time for a local charity supporting parents with disabled children after they approached me. I don’t make any money from individual cases, many of whom pay nothing for the support they receive.

It’s not argumentative or a superiority complex to want provision that must legally be provided to actually be provided and enforce it if it isn’t. Unfortunately parents who know the system, advocate and enforce DC’s rights get better support.

Please quote where I posted what is written in the EHCP is more important than “being empathetic and treating each child like an individual”? It doesn’t have to be one or the other, and EHCPs do treat each child as an individual. No 2 are the same as every child’s needs are different.

Can you also please also quote where I posted you could force a pupil to accept help? Or that providing support they are legally entitled to and the pupil liking you can’t both happen at the same time. If a pupil can’t engage with the SEP the EHCP isn’t meeting their needs and there should be an early review so the EHCP and SEP within it needs can be amended and adapted so it does meet their needs and they reach a point where they can engage. It isn’t for the TAs, schools or LAs to just decide not to provide SEP within legally binding EHCPs.

I have read adults who had a 1-1 TA as children complain it did them a disservice.

My experience is that it's a fight to secure provison and then once secured your child gets to school and meets up with TAs, class teachers and SENCos who neither respect nor adhere to the specified provision in the EHCP and use the child's resources to prop up shortfalls in teaching and support within the class and school. The effect being that the placement breaks down and parents look to independent specialist schools to make the provison their child needs instead thus costing LA's significantly more instead.

Surely it's a totally different scenario not to give the elderly person meds

Child A's learning wouldn't suffer if you went to assist another dc for 5 mins.

@woodhill it's not different at all. That's exactly why it's a legal document . And it's because of people who don't understand that that it has been made enforceable by law.

Depending on the situation, leaving a child unattended for 5 minutes, would definitely affect their education (or at least that lesson) , it could endanger themselves or their peers, it could disrupt everyone's learning for that lesson. Hell, even the whole school's like that one time when one child ran off and triggered the fire alarm so everyone had to evacuate.

I've seen things happen in the split of a second, a 5 whole minutes would've meant a serious incident with significantly fall out.Following the plan keeps everyone safe,including staff.

Yes I take your point but couldn't a non Eh Dc do the same thing