To think a TA is not always beneficial

[Dancedanceswim]

I should clarify that I’m both a TA myself and a mum of a (now adult) ASD child. I’m in now way against TA’s in general. This is specific to one child (mild ASD/ what would have been called Aspergers) I know of where I think that, in that case, him having a 1-1 TA is an error:

• firstly, having a TA means that the whole experience at primary school is very “managed” and a bit sterile which may make it much harder for him to cope at secondary
• This is an unpopular opinion but school really isn’t all about learning - the social aspect is vital. Therefore, if a child is sat with a TA all the time they won’t be able to freely socialise with their peers or enjoy any kind of childish behaviour without being constantly managed and having someone watching them
• They’re already self conscious about being different- surely sitting a TA next to them will only make them feel more different to their peers. Also, it will signal to the other kids that they are different and potentially make them a target for bullying/ socially being ostracised
• This child is actually very bright and there are many other kids in the class who could use 1-1 help in terms of improving their progress with work.

The reason they have a TA is because their parents absolutely fought tooth and nail. However, in my opinion I’m not sure it’s actually benefiting this child and this is perhaps a theme throughout.

This is about one child but I think in more general terms that while TA’s can be a valuable asset in the classroom and for some children can be brilliant, they’re not always beneficial. Aibu?

A TA is a teaching assistant and supports the whole class and the class teacher. An LSA is a 1:1 and supports one child.

The terminology varies area to area and school to school. Some schools call 1:1s TAs.

For example, the first 2 1:1 TA job adverts on Google -
one
two

@Mrsuntidy In schools you are familiar with. Ours call them all TAs. There's a huge variance in terminology

If a Ta is sat like glue to a child that could benefit from time to socialise alone then the Ta is doing it wrong - not the ehcp.

The Ta should be teaching the skills, they should be experienced enough to know when to step back and allow them to use those skills and when to step in again to support new learning and prevent crisis.

My ds had a TA in secondary school. She was called his mentor. During some lessons which required a lot of writing and language she was deployed for him 1:1. But she worked with other students (including his best friend) to support them once she'd set ds up.

As long as she supported him primarily where required she was doing her job.

I was a TA and now do something specialist in education. I'm a massive promoter of using TAs effectively and supporting them to get it right professionally.

That's all we have in our school now! There are no general TAs. No money 🤷🏼‍♀️.

It depends on the TA. Many do not understand when to step back and it causes no end of issues

There is no such thing as mild ASD which is a hugely offensive thing to say. You either have it or you haven’t. It varies in how it presents and if you’ve met one person with autism you’ve met one person with autism. You aren’t in the child’s head so will have no idea of the difficulties they will be challenged with daily.

I’m suspicious that either your op isn’t true, you’re not a TA or your school is doing a dreadful job re training. At our school the whole staff has autism training so would know the above. Everybody would know the difference between a 1:1 and a general TA. We’d also know how to do both correctly, having had training and are measured on progress and work done to attain goals on very detailed EHCPs.

You’d need an EHCP with a lot of funding to get a full time 1:1. It’s very difficult to get however much parents fight. Something in the op doesn’t ring true.

EHCPs state 1:1 but never come with enough funding which is why we no longer have general TAs

Trying to employ good TAs/1.1s is really tricky. The wage is shit. I have had to sort through some awful job applications of people thinking they can do the job and have actually not appointed on some occasions as they have been so awful.

We have some amazing support staff at school but most struggle to realise when to step back and when to intervene.

As others have said a good TA is beneficial a bad TA isn't.

My experience has been that TAs either become over involved in classroom management or they step back to the point that they might as well not be there.

It’s a huge shift that came about in the last twenty years - we now think they are indispensable. I actually think most schools could manage fine without them.

I stopped paying attention to what you thought about the situation when you decided the child had "mild" autism, which doesn't exist and it's very depressing but sadly not surprising that someone who works as a t.a would still believe that "mild" autism is a thing.

As previous posters have said, you don't get a 1:1 easily, so if a child has one, they need one. However a 1:1 role can be really varied and you probably don't see the whole role, the discreet independence building/the scaffolding they are putting in place to prepare the child for secondary etc....

I've worked as a TA in school. I never sat next to them the whole time during lessons. I would often be helping other students with work too while keeping an eye on the child and making sure they stayed focused. At breaktimes and lunchtimes they were on there own with their friends.

I now work in secondary and a number of kids there have TAs so they don't necessarily go from having support to zero support.

EHCPs state 1:1 but never come with enough funding

EHCPs can be fully funded.

I've worked as a TA in school. I never sat next to them the whole time during lessons. I would often be helping other students with work too while keeping an eye on the child and making sure they stayed focused. At breaktimes and lunchtimes they were on there own with their friends.

Presumably none of them had 1:1 specified and quantified in F otherwise the school was acting unlawfully. 1:1 for break and lunch can also be included if necessary.

My DS was given a 1-2-1 in primary. He seemed, at the time, to be doing better because of it. Roll on secondary school. No 1-2-1 and suddenly moving around from one class to another every lesson. Plus we realised he was actually working at a much lower level than we thought, because the 1-2-1 had been doing the work!

I ended up homeschooling as he was so out of his depth. He is now nearly 20 and awaiting a Stage II asd assessment.
It would have been better if he hadn't had 1-2-1 in primary and things had come to a head in Y4 not Y8.

If the TA is not beneficial, then that ultimately falls on SLT/SENCO. Children that have 1 2 1' s should still be monitored, progress checked,planned for , the teacher should still work with them , clear expectations for the child and the TA etc. If this is done accurately and regularly, any issues would soon become apparent and changes put in place.

@JustKeepBuilding I wish that happened. Our EHCPs do not give us the correct amount we need for support. It's even worse in nursery, a child on the highest band gets £880 for a term (15 hours). This does not pay for 1:1!!!! This is a child where it states 1:1 on the ehcp.

Special needs education is a shit show currently.

Do you think we need more places in specialist schools again?

It can and does happen.

Schools and parents can force the LA to fully fund. If your school doesn’t have enough funding then you can force the LA to provide it. LAs won’t fully fund unless forced to.

I have helped hundreds of parents to secure fully funded EHCPs.

The SEN system is a mess, but that doesn’t mean EHCPs can’t be fully funded.

I don’t think specialist school places are the whole answer but having a wider range of specialist schools, and just schools in general, I think would help many pupils and not just those with SEN.

in DS case he is to academically able for any of the local specialist schools, none offer the chance to do a full range of GCSEs. Mainstream isn’t an ideal for him but it’s better than specialist would have been, he goes to school to learn and if he isn’t being pushed then that’s when the issues really ramp up.

but the whole issue with mainstream education is it’s too much one size fits all and when children don’t fit into that box it’s too easy for them to slip through the net. Persoanlly i think having more alternative provisions for all pupils who need it would lead to much better outcomes long term.

There’s certainly not enough SS places for those who want them, but as Sirzy posted, it isn’t the answer for all.

DS3 has a lot of provision in his EHCP and because of that is thriving in MS secondary. He wouldn’t want and doesn’t need a SS.

It also wouldn’t solve the problem of no suitable school for all DC. DS1 has EOTAS because there are no schools that can meet his needs. That wouldn’t change with more SS places.

Yes, my DDs school are funded 30k for her provision and full time 1-1

@Busybody2022 Similar for DS3, his EHCP has over £35k attached to it. I know others with more than that too. Not only does DS3 have full time 1:1 with break and lunch covered the 1:1s are funded for prep time on top of that - something many say isn’t possible.

This is an unpopular opinion but school really isn’t all about learning - the social aspect is vital. Therefore, if a child is sat with a TA all the time they won’t be able to freely socialise with their peers or enjoy any kind of childish behaviour without being constantly managed and having someone watching them
^^
There's a kid in my son's class who needs a TA because they need to be constantly managed and supervised. But in the name of socialisation this isn't happening. Instead my son and the rest of the class are part of an experiment in finding out the long term effects of not intervening when it should have. My son has had bruises from it and has expressed fear of this child and there are obvious signs of coercion from this child. But 'socialisation'.

Nope. Doesn't work. Some kids need that supervision and there's no way around it

All.four of the special.schools in my LEA have doubled in capacity in the last five years so there is certainly a need for more spaces ,but that's both the whole answer as special schools are not a one size fits all.

Yes! Yes there is a huge need here. All of our county ones are full and parents who need them for their child are forced to go to Tribunal to get a spot. At a wait of oner a year. In the interim these children are either forced to remain in an unsuitable mainstream which has a detrimental effect on all of the children, not just them, or they can't cope and are at home unable to access education entirely.

The answer is more special school places PLUS hubs in all mainstream schools for those who do not qualify for or where a special school places wouldn't be appropriate but they cannot cope even if well supported in a mainstream environment. Trouble is, as always, with funding!!

Add in the fact that obtaining a decent EHCP (as in one that it quantified, specific and detailed) is nigh on impossible as a parent unless you're trained to get one and it's not wonder that children and our schools are floundering.

If you resonate a TA OP then you are doing it wrong and need better training. A TA shouldn’t be glued by the chip’s side, they should enable the child to get started and move away, checking back regularly. They should deliver targeted interventions. They should facilitate social skills and interactions. They should perform any physical assistance or physio that is necessary.