To think a TA is not always beneficial

[Dancedanceswim]

I should clarify that I’m both a TA myself and a mum of a (now adult) ASD child. I’m in now way against TA’s in general. This is specific to one child (mild ASD/ what would have been called Aspergers) I know of where I think that, in that case, him having a 1-1 TA is an error:

• firstly, having a TA means that the whole experience at primary school is very “managed” and a bit sterile which may make it much harder for him to cope at secondary
• This is an unpopular opinion but school really isn’t all about learning - the social aspect is vital. Therefore, if a child is sat with a TA all the time they won’t be able to freely socialise with their peers or enjoy any kind of childish behaviour without being constantly managed and having someone watching them
• They’re already self conscious about being different- surely sitting a TA next to them will only make them feel more different to their peers. Also, it will signal to the other kids that they are different and potentially make them a target for bullying/ socially being ostracised
• This child is actually very bright and there are many other kids in the class who could use 1-1 help in terms of improving their progress with work.

The reason they have a TA is because their parents absolutely fought tooth and nail. However, in my opinion I’m not sure it’s actually benefiting this child and this is perhaps a theme throughout.

This is about one child but I think in more general terms that while TA’s can be a valuable asset in the classroom and for some children can be brilliant, they’re not always beneficial. Aibu?

*really are

To add to the below, you only have to look at all the parent protests that are cropping up around the country to see how the SEN system is current utterly fucked. It's not a local issue, it's everywhere. Devon, Bristol, Oxford...and loads more. All have recently protested/had media coverage and it's only getting worse.

CSA pupils who are unable to attend school full time are entitled to a suitable, full time education by other means. LAs often fail to provide this but parents can force them to, so they don’t need to be at home unable to access education entirely.

But if, via an EHCP, they have had a 1:1 at primary school, then they should still have one at secondary school.

I'm not sure why the transition would be any more difficult in this case.

Are you thinking about circumstances which are different to this?

My son goes to special school and still has 1:1 so special schools dont always mean no 1:1

In mainstream, 1:1s used well are beneficial. but I do think some ehcps dont really outline what the 1:1 is supposed to do to help, and some 1:1s arent trained enough to do what they should be doing. It means you end up with an untrained person just trailing round with an unregulated child.

As a ta you're not qualified to say what needs this child has or how they should be met, that us down to the professionals providing the input for the ehcp. (I do believe TA's sre professionals and do a very difficult and under valued job).

The TA should be trained so that they know what support to give and when including how to aid in social activities.

Children can have 1:1 in a special school. Every child in my ds's sen school has at least 1:1 at all times. It is an autism school.

If you deem other children in the class to need a TA more then talk to the school about providing it for them and why their needs aren't being met. It isn't about who needs it more, it should be about them all having their needs met.

Yes I know

Absolutely true but have you tried getting an LA to provide it (I do on a weekly basis!).

Like getting blood out of a stone. Again often ends up at Tribunal!

Yes, I have, for DS1 and I have supported hundreds of other parents IRL and on MN to secure it too. Often a well worded threat of judicial review to the Director of Children’s Services works. If that and a pre-action letter doesn’t JR will and that is a much quicker resolution than Tribunal.

Sounds like we're in the same or a similar profession, @JustKeepBuilding!

Agree with you there too, these things do prompt action. The issue I find is that parents (especially at the moment) can't afford a letter before action or a JR. It's wholly unfair, but there are costs associated.

Our Director of Children's Services gives zero shits about receiving letters before action, etc. Honestly, it's dire.

A decent TA will support social interactions as well as learning.

But, basically, no one is getting a TA without quite significant need for one.

It's wholly unfair

It certainly is. Especially when DC whose parents know the system and can advocate for them get better support than those whose parents, for a myriad of reasons, can’t or don’t. Arguably it’s those DC who need the system’s support more.

SOSSEN are reasonably priced for pre-action letters, but the problem is they are inundated.

The whole system is broken. I don’t see how it will ever recover.

The move from statements to EHCPs was supposed to make it fairer, easier to navigate and specify needs etc. Seems to have had the opposite effect though.

I used to be an LSA in a secondary school and was mainly a 1:1. I was also a TA in primary and we had separate 1:1 workers for the children who needed it.

So, I think yabu, however, I do think that some of the 1:1 work in primary can end up being a bit counterproductive if the child relies heavily on one person for their emotional needs. I saw this in the primary I worked in and did wonder how the child would get on in secondary. The child's EHCP hadn't even come through halfway through year 6 but they had intensive support every day from a dedicated LSA in school. I think there are huge issues with the system in place to support children with SEN and that transition between primary and secondary can be very difficult.

Sorry...I mean yabu to say that TAs are generally providing 1:1 support. IME that isn't the case

As @JustKeepBuilding says SOSSEN charge roughly half of what a solicitor would charge for pre action protocol letters (£145) I have used them and always got the desired result. I then pursue the formal complaint to get the LA to refund my costs. Last time I didn't even need to pursue to LGO they refunded me at first asking after a FOI I put in showed they met legal timescales on fewer than 34% of transition EHCPs. Not sure they wanted that fact publicising.

SOSSEN are great, they do a wonderful job. Sadly lots of parents can't afford them though.

It should be a level playing field. Parents shouldn't need to have expertise in SEN law, or be able to afford independent assessments or to pay for legal advice just so their child can have their needs met. Sadly, they seem to. SOSSEN are overwhelmed. Local DIASS services (free) are overwhelmed.

I agree with the PP. The system is broken.

My DD's EHCP to properly meet her needs
£2300 Ed Psych
£735 SALT
£580 OT

Everything the LA wrote was awful. I also paid whatever the rate was to do all 3 levels of IPSEA training.

My DS so far has cost

£580 OT
£735 SALT
£2250 independent ASD assessment

I haven't taken on the EP yet but that will inevitably need doing.

This was all just to get properly written reports. Before I sorted DD's she was in school 90 minutes a day as school had no idea what to do with her, only specialist who would take her was a behavioural as her EHCP was a long list of behaviours when her needs weren't met. Now her ehcp has been rewritten she is thriving in mainstream with full 1-1 support provided by 2 members of staff.

My DS has a severe speech disorder and a speech level of a 4 year old (he's 6). He did have in his original plan 6 sessions per term of SALT. Out of 24 he received 8, the LA told me it was "regrettable" and he's made some progress despite this. I sent them a long complaint of what is regrettable. They then tried to remove his SALT provision entirely because they didnt want to offer it anymore. I had to pay to get an independent report to stand a chance of arguing against it.

I'd do it every single time but it is disgustingly unfair that because I can afford around 7k so far my kids get the support they need.

I'm already saving for DD's transition to secondary as she won't survive in mainstream at that point.

I agree that it should be a fairer system, however that’s not going to change any time soon, so all parents should be supported to enforce their DC’s rights within the system as it is.

There is support for parents who can’t afford expert advice and independent reports. For example, Parents in Need can sometimes help fund assessments, and if eligible legal aid can (although that’s a separate system with its own problems). IPSEA sometimes have case workers who can support through tribunal and they offer free or reduced price courses to those on low incomes. Even online there are parents who will support other parents through the process. The SN and SEN boards on here are helpful. I have written correspondence and completed forms for posters on here. I have helped parents secure gold plated EHCPs where they haven’t spent a penny. No it’s not easy, but it is possible.

I'd be really interested for this thread to be moved to The Staffroom. I wonder what teachers/school staffs views on it are?

@MNHQ is that possible?

There’s a TA in my school who does the work for the children. I’ve spoken to her about it because this is really irresponsible. How can a child with LD be adequately supported and protected when they are older if their intellect has been fabricated by someone who wants to appear a better teacher than they are?

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way @JustKeepBuilding. It's great that you help families free of charge (I do too). There are resources available, the information on the IPSEA website is brilliant (as is their training if people can afford to access it).

I just know, from what I do, that there are an awful lot of parents who can't access them. Or maybe they could, but they don't even know they exist. I meet parents who have disabilities themselves, who are so overwhelmed by their lives and caring for their child/children with SEND themselves, who maybe also have their own learning difficulty or disability. None of these parents would have the first clue about how to access these spaces. It's not uncommon. They might not have a laptop or tablet, or be very computer literate, or be able to fill out the paperwork properly (especially an EHCNA!). They don't know what their children's rights are or where to access help that they're not automatically excluded from because they can't afford it.

I try my best to empower them with some knowledge and confidence, show them where to go and what to do but often what these individuals need is someone to handhold them through the entire process or more often, in all honesty, for someone to do it all for them. Without paying, you're hard pushed to find someone that will do that especially on a larger scale.

So it continues. The children (like my own, i have no problem in admitting it and perhaps this is why I give my time for free to help other families, because the unfairness rankles) who have parents who are qualified, educated, confident, with time to dedicate to advocating for their child, computer literate and able to afford things like independent assessments when the local authority is crap etc etc etc will generally receive better levels of support. My child's needs are met in school because I have (as the OP describes) fought tooth and nail for them to be. There are children in their class who most definitely need similar levels of support but do not have it. I know the parents fairly well, and I make an educated guess as to why this is.

What should happen is needs are identified and families should not need specialised knowledge, help and support because 'the system' should take care of it all in a fair and proper way. The system does not. But we are where we are and we do what we can, I suppose.

My child had a 1-1 in primary. She was amazing as she knew exactly when to step in and when to hang back. The other students in the class used to like sitting near my DS as they knew the TA would also help them if needed.
I always knew she was great but until DS reached secondary I didn’t realise how exceptional she was.

Having a 1-1 at secondary didn’t work out. DS had 2 or 3 over the course of a week. None of them were intuitive so couldn’t read the signs of when to help/stand back. A couple decided that there were others that needed more help so would help them rather than DS, DS was the only child in the class with funding/EHCP. DS was quiet and a couple of others were disruptive so got support over DS. It left DS feeling unsupported. The SENCO even sent me an email stating that the one of the TAs wasn’t happy that DS didn’t want her support and there were better uses of her time - she hadn’t built a rapport with DS, often was helping others when he needed help so he ended up pushing back.

Some TAs are amazing but a poor TA can do more damage than good.

I'm a TA too in a large secondary school and I agree with you - TAs aren't ALWAYS beneficial (though they often are, of course).

I often feel sorry for the children who are so vulnerable they have to have a TA glued to them at all times. Even in PE lessons, even walking between lessons and at break time. They are never unsupervised and this makes it very hard for them to make friends with their peers. They become dependent on the TA for help with lessons but also socially to get through the day.

A big current issue is too many extremely vulnerable children in mainstream schools. But that's another debate.

Yeah that's just silly, and does the child no favours.