To think most people are concerned about climate change... but

[hopewithoutpanic]

Don't know what they can personally do to make an impact?

We can see the fires, floods and impact climate change is having in both near and far places.

It has to be a concern, right? This is something that could make our planet dramatically different within our and our children's lifetimes.

Would I be correct in thinking the issue is that is individuals just don't know what (aside from recycling / trying to reduce meat etc) they can do to make a real difference?

I do think stopping funding burning things in other countries is probably a worthy goal too.

Three trillion in UK pension funds - just read a report that suggests the funds represent more emissions than the entire UK carbon footprint and if the pensions industry was a country it would be a top 20 emitter.

China put more new coal energy plants into use last year than the rest of the world combined. It's not demonising China to note this is pretty crazy when much of the world is trying to lose them

It used to be a shithole country but things have been 1000% better for the average person in the last thirty years. They should never apologise for it.

They accomplished the greatest anti-poverty program in the history of the world, basically.

(and I absolutely loathe the ruling party but nobody can take that accomplishment away from them)

If I can, I do. I like to support local business. But that has nothing to do with environmental concerns. The reason I buy local produce is that it's fresher, and I think we're probably better attuned to eating things from the local climate and environment. I think people would benefit from less rat race and slower, simpler lives overall. Again, nothing to do with environmental concerns directly. If I'm honest, I don't have the energy to worry about that.

🙄

I love these threads, there's so much creative fiction about what people have actually said.

First, my point is that our holier than thou 'look at our domestic emissions' posturing is at best skewed and is a bit of a silly argument particularly in the context of individual action. A bit like saying flying doesn't count if the plane takes off and lands in other countries.

Second, we have a degree of purchasing power that isn't represented in our domestic emissions. We can make decisions about how that purchasing happens and, on a national level, set our trade policies in a way that reflects our domestic commitments.

And third, moneymoneymoneymoney. We're still the world's sixth largest economy. Are people really suggesting all that money isn't influential?

I'm talking about plastic waste being thrown away into the environment. Not production of plastic.

I was referring to posts where PPs have said why does charging for plastic bags make a difference if xyz is producing x amount of emissions. Say I completely didn't care about climate change, I can still care about someone buying a plastic bag every time they shopped and chucking it away for animals to suffocate with. To me that's a separate issue altogether. And if charging makes people do this less then I'm all for it, even if it makes 0 difference to climate change.

China put more new coal energy plants into use last year than the rest of the world combined. It's not demonising China to note this is pretty crazy when much of the world is trying to lose them. Criticising the Chinese government's choices surely is no different to criticising the Tories. But no one ever says they're being demonised.

Didn't they also put more renewables into use last year that any other country? Likely to meet its goal of a third of its overall consumption to be renewable by 2025 early. Why only talk about the coal, why not the overall picture?

I reckon you can demonise plenty about the CCCP, and China has a fuckload of a long way to go on climate still (don't we all) but the very one-sided 'it's China innit' narratives around climate are an easy way of shrugging off the role of other countries' choices.

The difficulty is even with all the paper straws and reusable bags in the world it won't make a difference until the largest corporations are held accountable for thier part. I don't know the exact numbers but it's something insane like the top 10 corporation's are responsible for like 80% of the world emissions, so it doesn't really matter what us normal folk do.

Plastic waste is a double/treble issue isn't it?

Charging for single use plastics brings down litter and reduces environmental/wildlife harm.

It also reduces landfill (especially if you look beyond single use plastics bags to broader plastics that end up in landfill).

And reducing plastics use via whatever means means you're producing less emissions.

It's a bit of a symbolic one in emissions terms of course. But waste and emissions are linked.

First, my point is that our holier than thou 'look at our domestic emissions' posturing is at best skewed and is a bit of a silly argument particularly in the context of individual action. A bit like saying flying doesn't count if the plane takes off and lands in other countries

Their point is that the UK can only control UK emissions. At best, you can onshore companies that are manufacturing abroad—but that’s not going to do much of anything anyway, since China is pretty much required to be joint venture and they’d just move on without you.

Second, we have a degree of purchasing power that isn't represented in our domestic emissions. We can make decisions about how that purchasing happens and, on a national level, set our trade policies in a way that reflects our domestic commitments

Of course that is the UK’s right to do. It’s probably a better way on many levels tbh

And third, moneymoneymoneymoney. We're still the world's sixth largest economy. Are people really suggesting all that money isn't influential?

You still need a return on those investments. Do you really think you could pick green winners and satisfy share holders? An investment should be still a good investment without the green angle

Paper straws and less plastic bags makes a difference to the animals alive now, who eat them or get straws stuck up their nose, or other horrible injuries and deaths. Just for the immediate benefits and for the sake of preventing that suffering, it is worth focusing on those small things.

Paper straws and less plastic bags makes a difference to the animals alive now, who eat them or get straws stuck up their nose, or other horrible injuries and deaths. Just for the immediate benefits and for the sake of preventing that suffering, it is worth focusing on those small things

It is better to focus on stuff like this that you can actually improve; not much you can do about global emissions after all

If all that matters is total emissions why are you singling out China, USA and India and claiming there is nothing we can do. Classic whataboutism.

This exactly.
Humans may or may not be causing "climate change" TBH it doesn't really matter.
Can we stop it? Very unlikely.
I find it interesting that the focus in public thinking has changed from the Greenpeace type movement, which was about saving the planet, to Extinction Rebellion which is basically just about saving the human race.
Just shows the general selfishness of the human race in a nutshell.

However, if there is one thing humans are good at, that is adapting and innovating so I do think there will always be humans inhabiting the planet, just maybe not in the same way we are now.

I do think there will always be humans inhabiting the planet, just maybe not in the same way we are now.

Until the sun burns out at the longest.

Oh absolutely, it's just not going to have a huge impact on climate change as a whole, my point was the small things we can do as individuals is a drop in the ocean of what's actually needed and no matter how hard individuals try it's a huge cultural change needed from the top.

In terms of global warming, yes. But it is worth it for the sake of the animals that don't suffer today due to small things. I don't care about climate change but I do plant things to help the pollinators because I care about the animals around me in the immediate moment.

I man stalls about environmental impact for my local friends of the earth. We get quite a lot of people round the stall when we're at things like festivals. We've got interactive stuff to do, makes it fun. But the majority of the people that visit are already well educated and taking actions themselves. It's preaching to the converted. The problem is getting this out to the masses. And systems change.

Some of the biggest things you can do as individuals are, move your money to a green Bank. Eg nationwide, monzo, tridos. Same with your pension. So your money is supporting green initiative rather than say oil. Vote green at elections (not necessarily green party, just someone better). And then, tell other people. Talk about environmental issues. Persuade people.

It's about preserving humans, and I'm not sure we deserve it...

'Humans' are your own children, my children and people who are alive now. Not some faraway philosophical concept.

And people won't just be disappearing into a cloud of dust either. Climate change related deaths will be drought, famine, drowning etc

This is what I was trying to say in my posts too. I care about rubbish and landfill more than climate change tbh.... so the posts where people have said "why bother recycling if China is producing thousands of tonnes of emissions" make no sense to me because its 2 different impacts on the environment.

The report this is based on is one of the most disingenuous and deliberately misleading pieces of research I have ever seen and has backfired spectacularly on the authors. It basically premises that all the emissions associated with burning fossil fuels for heat, power and transport can be attributed to the big energy and mining companies. Not to the power generators, not the transport providers, not to companies, organisations or households who the actually have the option to make decisions.

It really does matter what ordinary folk do.

This is my take on it
I'm not going to freeze, be stuck with inadequate public transport, buy more expensive products etc.
I'm not wasteful, but I won't make my life even harder whilst those telling us what we can and can't do are swanning around in private jets and using huge personal resources.
I do the little things, avoid fast fashion, don't waste food, drive as economically as I can, I try to buy one item that will last me a decade rather than several cheap ones etc.
When it's under £50 to get a return to Edinburgh on a plane, £160 in petrol plus parking, or £150 on a train, which do you think I'll choose? The reality is I can only afford one of them.

If you can you buy local wellies and plumbing supplies - where do you live? South Vietnam?

That's one way of looking at it (to put it kindly!).

You have to ask yourself why China has so many coal fired power stations in the first place.

Another way of looking at it is asking why virtually everything (during my lifetime at least) has been made in China. The west has historically abused cheap labour so that we can buy cheap goods. Almost everything we see around us is imported.

Manufacturing is hugely responsible for CO2, hence why the UK is down. But we've been exploiting cheap labour for so long that we've deluded ourselves into thinking that we're greener than everyone else. Yet it's our collective drive to be competitive and to consume that has created business models that depend 100% on exploiting cheap labour. The problem is, we don't actually care about how China generates the electricity to produce what we want. We just want cheap goods.

The way to help China is to stop buying so much stuff and reduce our dependency on cheap labour. But then we'd manufacture more and then moan that everything is so expensive. Our CO2 would also go up so would never happen.

So the solution is for us to factor the CO2 into the price of goods we buy/import via additional taxation and for the tax to go into greener power. But no-one wants that either.

All deaths from these causes have plummeted in the modern day, unironically because we use fossil fuels
to prevent them

On balance, I prefer to keep using FF to prevent further deaths from these causes