To think most people are concerned about climate change... but

[hopewithoutpanic]

Don't know what they can personally do to make an impact?

We can see the fires, floods and impact climate change is having in both near and far places.

It has to be a concern, right? This is something that could make our planet dramatically different within our and our children's lifetimes.

Would I be correct in thinking the issue is that is individuals just don't know what (aside from recycling / trying to reduce meat etc) they can do to make a real difference?

It has a huge impact when 28 million households do it!

It does feel futile doesn't it?

For the last few elections, I've voted Green party (mainly as a protest vote). Ive used the same shopping bags for about 10 years. I've upgraded my boiler and windows to improve the efficiency of my home. I've added solar panels. I do less than 4,000 miles a year in my car. I've had one short haul flight in the last 5 years. I have a compost heap where I put as much as possible. I recycle as much as I can. I have a water butt for the garden in the summer to save water. My hobby is sewing, so I try to make as much of my own clothes as possible (although admittedly the fabric is not UK made).

For most of this, I do it without even thinking about it. I wouldn't even think of myself as a "particularly green" person - its all just positive habits. I would argue that most people in the UK are probably fairly similar - we know to use our own shopping bags, we know to recycle etc, but no matter what I do, my efforts will amount to absolutely fuck all when the industries aren't even TRYING to make an effort.

i drove through my town centre at night recently. So many offices (including my former employer) had all the lights on (cos safety innit) all the time. And at the exact same time, we were all being told to preserve energy to prevent blackouts. Its a joke. Its no wonder that people turn and think "fuck it, what's the point"

Oh what basis would you make that assumption?

Basic maths, as well as common sense, would indicate that 'that must be the same for everyone' must be nonsense (and 'for at least a portion' makes no sense when you're looking at countries' overall emissions) - someone is manufacturing that stuff for us, and that manufacturing is showing up in their domestic emissions.

Our balance of trade is vastly different to eg China's. A lot of their domestic emissions are tied up in the goods they produce for export.

We export a lot less, particularly manufacturing exports. We import a lot more. Demonising China while simultaneously outsourcing our emissions to them, India, Brazil et al is just a teeny bit hypocritical.

Its no wonder that people turn and think "fuck it, what's the point"

This is pretty much where I'm at.

We pretty much have renewable energy, but guess wgich countries do not want us to stop using their fossil fuels?
No doubt governments are being paid handsome backhanders to make a noise about climate but do nothing

@Daftasabroom , this book sounds fascinating! I am definitely going to read it, thank you for sharing it (and for summarising).

False choice. We don’t have to accept it at all, why do you think we do?

We have enough fossil fuels to last for centuries (although naturally I’d prefer a nuclear program like in France)

@Sunnytomorrow great post but you left off:

1. Get involved. Learn about sustainable strategies, become an advocate or champion at work, at your sports and social clubs, in your local community, stand for your local council.

Every little counts it really does.

I understand per capita however that means not a lot in terms of the whole picture. All that really matters is total emmissions. The UK makes no impact on overall numbers as a nation as if we suddenly didn't exist no difference would be made to the current climate change models.

The only way to stop climate change is to research and develop renewable energies that are cheaper for the world.

Another point that I've been trying to make at school is that the teachers are always teaching the kids about what's making the planet unhealthy. If my 7yo sees some litter, she literally says "mummy, someone naughty is making the earth sick" and she's absolutely right. It's great that schools are pushing this to the children.

BUT.

As an example, World Book Day is coming up. I (and several other parents) have emailed the HT asking to know sooner rather than later if it's a dress up day, so people have time to save up rather than being lumbered with the cost of several costumes a day or two in advance. I've asked that we don't do dress up, because of the sustainability issue. How can we tell children that we need to protect the environment one week and then tell them that they should go to Sainsbury's and spend £15 on a polyester costume that was probably made in China in a sweatshop and will only be worn once (at most)? Even if you freecycle it and pass it on, you're only getting 4-5 wears out of it before someone chucks it in landfill.

Centuries or not, there's going to be a time when it all runs out. I haven't put a time frame on it.

No one suggested that it was done for PR. Just that pointing to domestic production emissions as a 'we don't make a difference anyway!' get out is a bit misleading when a significant proportion of our emissions (Uni of Leeds seems to suggest 40-50%) are on someone else's books.

And as a PP points out, the per capita emissions aren't that rosy for the UK either...

Don't get me wrong, I think it's the systems that need to change and there are severe limits to individual action. But the 'tiny island, low emissions!' argument doesn't really stack up as much when you look at our per capita emissions, or our consumption, or what our money eg pension funds is actually paying for in other countries.

I think most people don’t care about climate change.

When the narrative becomes “I’m so worried about the future for my three children”, you know it’s already pointless.

This could be the great Brexit benefit - trade deals that give preferential tariffs access for lower emission imports eg non-deforestation palm oil and soya.

Somehow I'm sceptical that this government would do it....

Our balance of trade is vastly different to eg China's. A lot of their domestic emissions are tied up in the goods they produce for export

If they didn’t have UK as a market, you think they’d stop manufacturing?

Life has become so much better in China since they’ve developed their export-oriented economy (like Japan, Taiwan and South Korea before them), and they have markets outside of the UK to sell their products to as well. They don’t need the UK specifically.

Im not in the West these days and I have seen cheap Chinese goods flood our markets in the last few years, which has been only a good thing, as the local alternatives were too expensive and not that much better in quality tbh.

I see every little or big green thing I can do as buying a tiny little bit of time for the environment and climate because we really urgently need it. I have kids and want them to have a life and also be able to have kids, so I am desperate that this gets sorted for them.

Our council climate change team asked for people to get involved so I emailed them a list of suggestions to help the local environment, supporting local litter pickers, food waste collection, ensuring footpaths and cycle paths are well lit and safe, local food markets, banning balloon releases.... and they came back with a reason they couldn't do any of them.
I will reply but my current mood will be so arsey it won't end well.

@thebellagio my efforts will amount to absolutely fuck all when the industries aren't even TRYING to make an effort.

You are very mistaken in this, the major sectors are making massive investments in renewable and sustainable technologies. The Climate Disclosure Project has an A List of companies making serious efforts in becoming more sustainable, and publishing independently audited data on line.

We can vote and we can talk. We need to make it politically possible for governments to make the right choices.

Educate yourself on the facts, and the common justifications given for inaction. Be ready to challenge them politely whenever you hear a normally reasonable friend/family member/mumsnetter repeat a superficially clever thing they read on Facebook.

Decarbonising the UK's heating and transport systems will involve short term expense and inconvenience for a lot of people, although should give us longer term benefits in energy security etc. Those of us who can withstand that with manageable sacrifices of time and money should do so without moaning. Those of us who can manage it without thinking twice should be prepared to subsidise the people who will really struggle.

Personally: fly less, eat less meat and dairy.

So why not set up an independent forum or lobby group?

Britain is responsible for less than 2% of global carbon emissions. Data here. We also have quite a low per capita carbon footprint -
if you scroll down this link you can see we are close to global averages, not high like Australia, the US, China.

All this means that even if the UK sunk into the sea next week, it would have very little impact overall. Bring that down further to individual changes and the difference we can make is minimal. Most of us aren't leaving a huge carbon footprint - a little driving, using energy at home but turning things off when not using, recycling and using food waste, buying clothes only as needed etc... there's not much more you can strip down without exiting modern life, and even then the data shows, it would make very little difference.
The difference will be made with new technologies for cleaner energies and more pressure on the most carbon heavy countries to clean up. China put more new coal energy plants into use last year than the rest of the world combined. It's not demonising China to note this is pretty crazy when much of the world is trying to lose them. Criticising the Chinese government's choices surely is no different to criticising the Tories. But no one ever says they're being demonised 😂

I think it's challenging for all the reasons people have said but also because a lot of people don't even believe in climate change.

We've also all been conditioned now to an aspirational way of life - that children do better than their parents. Noone wants to reduce their quality of life. Understandably so!

When it's cheaper for most people to go on holiday rather than buy a house, they will do.

When a vegan chocolate bar is 100% more than the dairy bar people will buy the dairy.

It’s great that you buy local fruit and veg.

However, you don’t buy local welly boots and plumbing supplies.

Individual behavioural change en masse can have a measurable impact. The only times GHG emissions dropped in the 30+ years since the UNFCCC was formed and Kyoto / Paris agreements were put in place were 2008 and 2020/21.

And I think we all know what happened in those years.

Individuals are “demand” - shops, manufacturers and ultimately fossil fuel companies respond to demand. So it’s up to individuals to make changes en masse, and be brave and open and talk about it.

Renewable energy is one area where we can make better choices. This should be cheaper but it currently isn’t. The government’s role here should be ensuring renewable energy is cheaper and incentivising its use. And allowing onshore wind - those turbines won’t be around for ever but we need them while more futuristic energy sources are developed. Let’s accept them for a few generations to help their kids survive.

Reducing or quitting meat & dairy is another huge area we as consumers can influence. Farmers should be able to adapt and provide the plant based proteins we need to replace them. Again the government can help here with grants and subsidies to convert.

And cycling / public transport must be made safe, comfortable and affordable. Taking a bus or train should be the obvious choice, and that means we need to demonstrate demand for those services. If we don’t use them and travel solo in cars, we’re causing them to shut down not become more available and frequent. Let’s shut down all the whining about cyclists and this weird UK cyclist / motorist confrontational culture. In other countries they build really good segregated infrastructure, and voila - it gets used. Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland - just fantastic.

Where I live there is a need for a cycle route from the village into the city. Farmers oppose it because they anticipate “anti social behaviour” and are very much “not on my land” about it. This “default negative” attitude in the UK stinks, what happened to “can do” and “let’s try it” - so much moaning and very little excitement to progress !

Consumers have demand in their control, and working together we can engineer that demand to force the market to move faster into a more sustainable space.

It won't be a Brexit benefit. The EU heavily regulates polluting industries and pours massive investment into sustainability through Horizon Europe. But we're in process of give ministers the power to scrap those regulations without any consultation to either Parliament or other stakeholders. We do have limited access to Horizon Europe but funding needs to come through IUK. The admin burden is triple what it was.