To think most people are concerned about climate change... but

[hopewithoutpanic]

Don't know what they can personally do to make an impact?

We can see the fires, floods and impact climate change is having in both near and far places.

It has to be a concern, right? This is something that could make our planet dramatically different within our and our children's lifetimes.

Would I be correct in thinking the issue is that is individuals just don't know what (aside from recycling / trying to reduce meat etc) they can do to make a real difference?

We’ve made changes, beyond that we’re a tiny factor in it all but hopefully one of many.

@MintyFreshOne I'm taking about if the human races dies out and the idea that we don't deserve it. I'll still be around in 60 years and so will my children etc. so don't think we deserve to die out (which won't be as simple as just disappearing as you'd imagine in your head)

I'd guess it will be big business and big technology that will help overall

The way to help China is to stop buying so much stuff and reduce our dependency on cheap labour. But then we'd manufacture more and then moan that everything is so expensive. Our CO2 would also go up so would never happen

Your way of ‘helping’ China is to impoverish them. Their quality of life has improved immensely from an export-oriented economic system.

Thankfully they do not solely rely on Western economies to buy their products.

I don't own wellies. The closest thing I have is hiking boots and they are made more locally. I have no idea where my plumbing supplies are made. If given the option I'd go for the local product though, just to support local manufacturing. I just let the plumber do their job.

That is another issue though that, these days, we sometimes have no choice as we can't get locally produced items. Or the imported items are so much cheaper some people feel they need to buy them for the family economy. Global trade is so established now, I don't see that changing. The point is - when I CAN, I go for local.

I admit I became much more conscious of buying local and supporting local businesses through Covid. Something I try to continue as much as possible.

If we're thinking of the environment, I hate to think how much plastic in medical waste and masks has gone into the environment from Covid alone.

China is one of the biggest export nations in the world. They rely on the west producing loads of our stuff, from clothes to electronics, to cars and everything else.

They may not rely solely on us but it's us that have been responsible for building a manufacturing giant. Now we're moaning about their energy production.

Your argument is flawed because it's the same as us paying immigrants poor wages to pick fruit etc. here in the UK. We can say, "oh they're better off than where they came from" but is missing the point. Exploitation of cheap labour is a horrible practice and we turn a blind eye and make excuses because we want cheap goods.

ComtesseDeSpair · Today 08:47
I think a lot of people actually just don’t care, to be honest. I don’t. I’ll be dead by the time things get really bad and I truly don’t care what happens to the humans after me. Not my problem. A lot of people dress up their “I actually don’t care” with arguments about “well, whilst X, Y, Z is going on in industry and other countries it seems pointless for me to bother recycling my yoghurt pots” etc, but the baseline is lack of care“

I think you’re right. I care but only because we have children and grandchildren, so my concern is purely selfish.
If we didn’t, I may well feel the same way. The world will keep going, species will evolve as they always have. Some will die, humans may be one of them. New species will emerge.

Great. You sound nice. But this is a climate change thread.

My point is no one buys wellies ‘locally made’ in the UK. We don’t grow rubber trees ffs. And the same goes for chrome plated steel and rubber plumbing supplies. A sheer fucking stupidity that stops people understanding the climate impact (and ethics) of their supply chains.

Your argument is flawed because it's the same as us paying immigrants poor wages to pick fruit etc. here in the UK. We can say, "oh they're better off than where they came from" but is missing the point. Exploitation of cheap labour is a horrible practice and we turn a blind eye and make excuses because we want cheap goods

I have lived in China for over 10 years. I have seen people that grew up using outdoor toilets planked over pig sties become millionaires (sadly I wasn’t one of them lol).

There is a strong middle class now whereas before just grinding, terrible poverty. We call those born in the 40s and 50s in China a lost generation because their potential was totally wasted, but opening up to the world has been the greatest anti-poverty program in the history of the world.

And you call this exploitation. Sure sure.

Tbh they used you just as much as you used them. Betrayed your own working class so you could get cheaper stuff. But it still seems a better way for both sides even so.

Yes, it's drifted a bit but going back to the climate change discussion, if we're looking at reducing shipping and all that entails, we would have to go back to the days when more was produced locally and find ways to do that. I know my childhood wellies were locally produced. I don't believe that will ever happen though. Maybe when fossil fuels run out, or will we find another way? Maybe a more environmentally friendly way to move things around. Solar driven ships perhaps? That would make exporting and importing less polluting and address some climate change goals.

Meanwhile, I just worry about the little things I can do to reduce suffering in the world for humans and animals. I do believe that one day we will have depleted the earth's resources and it will continue without us, at least until the sun burns out in billions of years. Climate change in the longer term doesn't really concern me.

Their point is that the UK can only control UK emissions. At best, you can onshore companies that are manufacturing abroad—but that’s not going to do much of anything anyway, since China is pretty much required to be joint venture and they’d just move on without you.

No, there's many more tools rhan that when it comes to trade.

It is a good thing if poorer nations are catching up through global trade. Hopefully, in time, we will have a truly equal planet where resources are more fairly distributed.

I work in buying, there's things that you cannot source anywhere other than China now. No-one else makes them. End of. It's especially irritating because we have a "local" policy.
Where we can, our suppliers are in the same city as us, or up to 50 miles away.
So much sill has to come from China though.

I think this video (if you haven't already seen it) from 3:00 in is how most people feel tbh.

Yes I feel this way too.

I don't think too much about my personal contribution, but I do support wider initiatives which support change on a larger scale.

Like me just choosing a product which has more paper than plastic packaging probably isn't going to make an impact, but a brand swapping all of their products to paper rather than plastic packaging likely will, and doesn't really have that big of an effect on me anyway.

I will gladly recycle as long as it's easy. Most people are also that way. So companies making recyclable packaging is less important than councils providing easy to use (e.g. kerbside) recycling services.

It's known that their have been a few mass extinctions on earth and now many scientists think we are in the next one. How long will it take ? I m not sure they know.
It's no surprise to realise that humans are the worse thing that could have happened to earth and we are the takers of its resources.
Animals live in nature , we take from it.

It's generally recognized we are in a mass extinction even right now.

The whole 'climate change' narrative is debatable.

Also a small island like the UK is irrelevant if you compare to India or China

You are being naive OP

It's not going to be all peace and flowers when humans aren't here and it's just the animals though. Nature is pretty brutal and they will hunt and be hunted.

@BertieBotts So companies making recyclable packaging is less important than councils providing easy to use (e.g. kerbside) recycling services.

They are equally important, one without the other is pretty pointless.

@lifeinthehills

Yes agree but animals don't produce plastic , burn fossil fuel etc .

I do what I can in the belief that if everyone did it eventually we'd sort the mess out.

I remember the 80s when the 'No cfc in aerosol' brigade were seen as the extreme eco hippies.

Then it became a global movement, CFCs don't exist anymore and the hole is 'fixed' relatively speaking.

Ditto recycling - not in every country but it's certainly very normal / expected in many.

Soon to be the same with single use plastic etc - slowly becoming a thing of the past.

Electric cars - used to be sci fi - now my Dad has one!

From tiny acorns (or my bag of plastic wrapping I have to take to a special recycling point) might oaks will grow.

Oh and I also donate to the Green Party and crowdfunders that back climate type legal challenges