To think that this book should not be sold to young girls?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

twitter.com/Waterstones/status/1623584986740953091?s=20&t=WU0D0fzc6ClGJC5R-gJnuw

Waterstones tweeted celebrating a book that is about transing girls. Here is one of the illustrations from the book.

AIBU to think that this is directly promoting self harm to young vulnerable girls?

Nobody can breast feed without breasts. That is a ridiculous statement. If your breast tissue has been surgically removed how on earth do you think you could feed a baby ?

Puberty blockers don't impact on fertility once ceased (they don't for children who are prescribed them for precocious puberty and they don't for anyone else)

I thought Jazz Jennings was left with undeveloped genitals, like those of a toddler. Not enough to feasibly make the faux vahuna from?

Could they truly use those undeveloped genitals in the way a teen who hadn't taken puberty blockers could (masturbation, potential intercourse etc)?

Because Jazz might have decided to continue transitioning but others might not.

cis women

There is no such thing as cis women.

publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition

There's this one. Published in 2022.

Oh, and trans men who have had top surgery can often still chest feed

They can only produce tiny amounts that are not sustenance and only with the use of drugs the effect on breast milk of which had not been studied for long enough to be certain.

I asked @TeaKlaxon earlier how they would be able to tell the difference between someone who would later on be happy with the outcome of their irreversible elective surgery,and someone who would regret it - given that doctors, therapists, counsellors, and the individuals themselves don't know in advance.

They have not answered that question.

They have minimised the numbers, and made out that regretting an entirely elective and physiologically harmful surgery which turns a healthy functioning body into a damaged, sliced up, one, is the same thing as regretting a hip replacement - something which replaces a malfunctioning body part with a functioning version, to improve quality of life.

I'd say that is, precisely, denying and minimising the harm done to those who regret transitioning.

I would like an answer to that question, but I know I won't get one.

*faux vagina

First, the study does not show 9% detransition.

It shows 9% desistence. They are not the same thing.

At a push, you could say it shows 4% detransition, in that 4% who went on cross-sex hormones decided to stop taking them.

But compare that to regret after hip surgery (5%) and after knee surgery (17%) or prostate surgery (20%) or breast reconstruction following a mastectomy (47%).

Of course it's total bollocks but @TeaKlaxon has refused to retract it, even though i've posted the links to the medical evidence

It has been falsely claimed it is not possible to predict breastfeeding outcomes after chest masculinisation surgery based on surgical technique (13). Where surgery removes and grafts the nipple-areola complex, there is little to no possibility of milk removal from the nipple, even should glandular tissue remain. Where the nipple is kept in place but tissue underneath it removed and duct connections cut or nipple integrity forfeited, milk removal is also impossible. Furthermore, surgical complications such as necrosis can result in nipple loss (4, 14, 15) and surgery that removes the nipple and areola entirely may be chosen (16, 17). Considered together, these factors mean that many, if not most, individuals who have undergone chest masculinisation mastectomy, are unlikely to retain ability to both produce and extract milk. Proper discussion is required for the patient to choose and consent. Without recognising that the future will include pregnancy for at least some patients, surgeons cannot offer a conservative approach; either of deferring surgery or attempting to preserve some function.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2023.1073053/full

13. Hoffkling A, Obedin-Maliver J, Sevelius J. From erasure to opportunity: a qualitative study of the experiences of transgender men around pregnancy and recommendations for providers. BMC Pregnancy Childbirth. (2017) 17(2):332. doi: 10.1186/s12884-017-1491-5 PubMed Abstract | CrossRef Full Text | Google Scholar
14. Kääriäinen M, Salonen K, Helminen M, Karhunen-Enckell U. Chest-wall contouring surgery in female-to-male transgender patients: a one-center retrospective analysis of applied surgical techniques and results. Scand J Surg. (2017) 106(1):74–9. doi: 10.1177/1457496916645964 CrossRef Full Text | Google Scholar
15. Knox ADC, Ho AL, Leung L, Hynes S, Tashakkor AY, Park YS, et al. A review of 101 consecutive subcutaneous mastectomies and male chest contouring using the concentric circular and free nipple graft techniques in female-to-male transgender patients. Plast Reconstr Surg. (2017) 139(6):1260e–72e. doi: 10.1097/prs.0000000000003388 PubMed Abstract | CrossRef Full Text | Google Scholar

This. 1000 times over. Why should a child who doesn't conform to a gender stereotype mutilate their body to conform. The long term effects of taking these powerful drugs are still unknown. As I understand it the Tavistock GIDS wasn't carrying out long term follow up studies on their patients. Why the hell not?

There are some very sinister people (mainly older men) involved in the trans movement and young people who generally struggle with their body image or sexuality are being exploited by those people for their own ends.

I find this whole thing terrifying and, up until fairly recently, anyone who raised any concerns was vilified, sacked from their jobs, harassed and threatened with rape and murder.

My DD has special needs. She hates her periods and the changes in her body that have come about because of puberty. If I ever found out that anyone was trying to persuade her that by taking dangerous drugs and mutilating herself she could solve those issues I would be horrified.

Translation: why are you bothering us with facts when we really really need to keep up the pretence that large numbers of people who transition regret their decision - otherwise our campaign against trans healthcare falls apart.

That study followed children as young as 6-7 for 5 years. It demonstrates social transition is not benign. It does not demonstrate low detransition rates. Because most of them were still children.

Transitioning is not new. There are many many newer treatments available in healthcare.

Also, no it is not just one - but the poster I was responding to said if even one person regretted transitioning, that should be enough to stop it.

That's bonkers and unsupportable.

But even though it is more than one, it is much much less than is often implied here, and also much less than for many other surgeries that no one things should be prevented.

I asked you multiple times how you would be able to tell the difference between someone who would later on be happy with the outcome of their irreversible elective surgery,and someone who would regret it - given that doctors, therapists, counsellors, and the individuals themselves don't know in advance.

You have not answered that question.

You have minimised the numbers, lied about evidence, and made out that regretting an entirely elective and physiologically harmful surgery which turns a healthy functioning body into a damaged, sliced up, one, is the same thing as regretting a hip replacement - something which replaces a malfunctioning body part with a functioning version, to improve quality of life.

I'd say that is, precisely, denying and minimising the harm done to those who regret transitioning.

Again - how do you know which individuals are the ones who will regret this extremely physically harmful, risky, and medically unnecessary procedure? When no one else in the whole world does?

'Transitioning is not new' but actual professionals in the field have made it very clear that they are alarmed by the huge explosion in numbers.

It has gone from 250 individuals a year, mostly boys, to 5000 a year, mostly girls, in the past decade.

You are talking absolute bollocks. The situation is not remotely comparable, and it's horrendous that you are so cavalier about the lives, health, happiness and safety of young girls. You're quite happy for them to be sacrificed for whatever motive it is that you have. Because it's blatantly clear that their pain is irrelevant to you.

Has anyone here insisted that being trans requires a certain type of body?

Lots of trans people transition only socially (and many transphobes claim they are not really trans as a result!) and I don't know any trans person who says they are not really trans. Some trans people out there may say that, but they are not representative of most trans people I know and follow.

On the other hand, many trans people do want to have the physical attributes associated with their gender. Not necessarily because they believe anyone without those attributes aren't really that gender - but for many different reasons.

Demonstrating regret in other areas of medicine does not devalue the concern about the regret for gender affirming treatments for children. It demonstrates there’s also a conversation that needs to be had about people undergoing knee surgery they may not need, prostate surgery they may have had a better option for (radiotherapy) and breast reconstruction.

What you’re demonstrating is healthcare professionals consistently fail to appreciate the impact regret as an outcome has on people and continue unabated, and gender medicine is no different.

@TeaKlaxon you claimed that trans men who have undergone mastectomy can still 'chest feed'.

I have now posted the evidence three times to demonstrate that this is untrue.

Are you going to retract that lie, or are you going to keep saying that you're "posting facts" when in fact you're talking bollocks?

'Facts' like 'trans men can still breastfeed'?

Ha ha. You know we can still see your posts, right?

'Some are reporting as high as 30%'

By all means post any credible study showing detransition levels of 30%. So far you've only produced one that could (generously) support a claim of 4%.

If you think an anonymous survey of people recruited on detransitioner reddits, which can be filled out by anyone, regardless of whether they have actually detransitioned, is credible, then your grasp of scientific studies is lamentable.

The issue is not specifically online recruitment. It is online recruitment in a highly limited corner of the internet that plagued Littman's ROGD claims. And here, the biggest flaw is that there is zero verification that anyone actually even is a detransitioner in the first place.

Thats exactly how medicine usually works, if people start reporting issues after medical procedures then they are included and if enough people report them then the procedure may be haulted.

Like drugs, causing birth defects. Are withdrawn when the effects are known.

Unless it is trans. The magic word. Where medics seem to lose their minds.

I quoted from the studies and the years.

They are all very easy to find because I've quoted the text directly.

Transitioning is not new

In the scheme of history, it is very new.

And it's also new in terms of follow up & large dacdes long studies.

These are the voices that @TeaKlaxon et al want to silence.

twitter.com/coccinellanovem/status/1623729751008456707/photo/1

What is truly astonishing is that any woman can really think that they can achieve happiness by mutilating their body and that any Doctor would go along with it and that a book like this could be written and marketed to children in the first place.

It's complete nonsense to think that children aren't impressionable.

This book is selling them a lie. A woman who has body parts chopped off can never really be a man. They might well 'identify as a man' but society will never really see them as such.

It's monstrous and unethical.

One day we will look back at this period and think what the fuck did we do to our children.