Aibu? This is not helping children’s self esteem?

[HulaHoop2012]

My DD is P6 (N.Ireland) second to last year of primary school. She’s a bright kid scored in the high 80’s and 90’s for her Numeracy and Literacy in her last round of tests . She’s in a class of 34. Explaining so I don’t drip feed.

Every month the school gives out awards for Numeracy and Literacy, you get a trophy and pictures on the school comms app etc a big well done in assembly.
Its the top scoring children or seems to be the same children, not every month but they may have got the trophy at least once though each school year, almost on rotation.

My daughter and a lot of others have never got it. My daughter has now got to the point where she can’t see that’s she’s doing really well. She’s constantly trying to ‘get’ the trophy and thinking each month she’ll get it, even though I explain she has a big class and I’m sure the teacher knows how hard she works etc etc

The same with prize giving at the end of the year. Top two kids get the prizes. In high achieving classes its very difficult for any other children to get them.

Ive now got a child who doesn’t think she’s doing well at school or is judging her success on getting these awards . How do you manage this situation and these disappointments?

I don’t agree with prize giving at
primary school, very young ones don’t have the understanding when they don’t win anything and it’s demoralising. Yes they have to learn but at the right age. My daughter’s school have a weekly prize for the kids who have spent the most time on the online English and maths work (they get set certain tasks but can do extra) It’s the same kid every week in DD’s
class because she has the pushiest mother around. DD doesn’t bother anymore because “Maria will win it anyway she always does”

Sounds like your DD is a big fish in a big pond with some even bigger fish. Being a high achiever in an environment with other high achievers makes it more difficult to shine than if your peers are average. Such is life. Your DD is old enough to have this explained and to understand that another person's superior achievement (if this is what the trophy signifies) takes nothing away from her own, provided its her best.
The school are not likely to change the criteria for the prize, and in fairness if it is achievement based, it is a better preparation for life, as in the real world there are no prizes for effort.
Personally I'd encourage your DD to see achievement of her personal best (rather than being THE best) as the goal. And there's nothing stopping you rewarding her for her effort and achievement.

When my 2 were in Primary school, my eldest one won everything under the sun. She was a perfect child to have in the classroom, intelligent, confident, friendly, helpful, volunteered for everything etc and I actually used to feel a bit embarrassed at end of term/year events as I would hear the mutterings and complaining of all the other parents.
My younger one was still a great pupil but a bit shyer, didn't grasp things quite as easily and barely won anything. They're now much older and it has not affected either of them in the slightest because we didn't let it as it's really not a big deal.The only kids that got upset were from the parents who did make a big deal about it.

In my kids school it’s always the same “brainy” confident kids that get the awards with the odd one thrown in for kids with SEN that maybe need a bit of support. But what about the kids that are more middle of the road with their schoolwork - do they not need some encouragement too

Looks like nothing has changed. At my school (early 70s) there were three or four girls marked out for Oxbridge and without fail they had the end of year prizes; one girl especially was favourite. Until our last year when she had to turn down a place at Cambridge because she was pregnant and I got the form prize instead. Did I bother with the prizegiving ceremony? nope, I was in my first term at university. Sod 'em and their favouritism.

I know what you mean. Awards, unless very well thought out are not the way to go to build childrens self esteem.

One primary one of mine went to went the other way with it, in that it was always, without fail, the kids who were disruptive, bullies etc who were given the prizes. Lots of parents brought this up as it really stood out, and the schools response was they were trying to improve the behaviour of these children. Well ok, but all it was showing the rest of them was that it didn't matter if you were well behaved and polite, you only get stuff if you behave badly. Not a great message to send.

My youngest goes to a diffrent primary and awards, in the form of a little cerificate are given each week by the teacher. Who is absolutely lovely and seems to actually understand this whole dilema with rewarding children. She alternates the 'award's' each week so every single child gets one at some point. And they will be for something she has decided is deserving.

So one week it may be Susie gets it for an act of kindness that was noticed, Then Frank will get one next week for improving hugely on his spelling test, then maybe Alfie will be next week for writing the funniest story. She will find something about each child that was good that week, whether acedemically or more personally. It works great. Mine last got one for encouraging other pupils understand a maths problem. What it does is makes sure each child feels good about themselves about something, whatever it might be, on the week they get the award.

And in terms of dealing with it with your DD, if she is getting demoralised. The way I dealt with it with mine in the first school was to say its something the teachers have to do, and they don't get alot of choice in it if thats the way the school says they must work, but agreed with them it was not great and as long as they always did the best they could and worked hard that is the best acheievement. And in the long run they will be rewarded with something far better than a silly trophy. Not sure how well it sank in, but there was really nothing I could do to explain it properly, it was rubbish.

at my kids school they have awards for academic achievement and also for attitude-usually the attitude one will go to the kid who has persevered, tried super hard etc but might not have scored the highest. They also have the academic prizes for those who have scored highest. It’s a good balance I think.

In my DD's school children get picked out each class each week for attitudes to learning and adhering to school rules. They all get picked at some point. Much more inclusive. I would tell the school exactly what you have told her, it's a system which is profoundly demotivating for her

Our school gives out two certificates per week per class. One is for academic effort/achievement, the other is for displaying school values (joy, love, trust, courage, hope). It means that teachers can generally find a way to award the certificates to each child in the class over the course of the year. I really like this system as we find children are often rewarded for things that sometimes go unrecognised, like helping a new member of the class or 'always' being happy and helpful around school, and it values the person, not just the learner.

Very sensible approach.

I found this discussion really useful. It ranges around a lot, including self-esteem.

I'm a primary school teacher and this does really annoy me. I think the issue is that there should be a wider range of awards. I don't agree with the whole participation award where everyone is patronisingly awarded/not giving trophies to high achievers nonsense either. That is life. But it is equally, if not more important, to reward effort and progress. If someone is not necessarily the 'best' at maths but has really worked their socks off and has made loads of progress, I think it's awful there isn't the same opportunity to recognise that. Also recognition for art, music, kindness, etc are so important. We have a weekly prize where you can choose any child for any reason.

My dd’s school has a few prizes they can win each week. There’s one for reading (not necessarily the best reader, just who has practiced most or made the most progress), there’s one for who has won the most house points and then there’s ‘star of the week’ which the teacher can pick anyone for any reason. They tend to all get this at some point throughout the year whether it be for good work, good behaviour, good manners etc. Works well from what I can see.
I think having just one award where only a select few can win it is a bit harsh for smaller children. They need to be rewarded for what they are good at. Let’s face it, not everyone is going to be traditionally ‘clever’ and it really is important to encourage kindness, patience and determination

I think they would do better to reward teams or groups like Hogwarts Houses than individuals.

In your shoes I'd explain that her worth amd ability are not measurable against other people. Horses for courses. They might be amazing at academia whereas she might be great at academia but also great at sport or compassion. Everyone has value, that sort of thing. Then praise her personal achievements, like her new personal bests or trying something new or being especially kind. Help her take the pressure off herself and measuring against others. X

So many primaries get this kind of thing wrong. They either give it to the same high-achieving child repeatedly (no accolades for others) or to the children who are struggling and have made a bit of progress (ignoring the bright kids). Or, of course, there's the 'awards on rotation' idea that means all kids get it at least once, making it almost pointless.

At least you have academic awards, OP. My DS's school only gives sports awards and ignores the clever kids completely!

Hi OP,

I used to win every academic prize going and was Dux at sixteen. Didn’t help my self esteem one iota, in fact having won put pressure on, and meant I had to win again, and again, which caused perfectionist tendencies, insecurity and irrational fear of failure. Perfect recipe for a fucked-up approach to life’s challenges. Winning this that and the next thing didn’t translate into any particular intellectual glory as an adult and my career and earnings are also lacklustre compared to most of my similarly ‘brainy’ peers. DH was also bright, but not as bright, and being clever or a winner never became a part of his personality. We have the same job. Guess who’s done the best?

We have tried to make it clear to our kids that their commitment to hard work is in itself a prize, and that they are their only true competition.

Your DD is doing brilliantly. A cup or a certificate is nice, but it’s definitely not a recipe for self esteem, depending on the personalities involved. In fact, what’s happening to DD now is a good grounding about the reality of how the world works. The most successful people I’ve ever known are not the ones who won all the prizes as kids.

The lesson she’s learning now, that hard work doesn’t always result in applause and external recognition, will do her more good in the long-run. I’d bet my crappy pay-packet on it 😉

Sounds shit. But good training for life really. Most people don't win most of the time. Usually there is only one winner. So the quicker we get used to that the better I guess.

Primary for us was awful at praising dc. My argument is that every dc should achieve something that’s good for their ability and if they haven’t then surely the school is failing them?

my dc are at secondary now and they are great at setting opportunities to achieve success in different ways to suit all dc. It highlights how bad Primary was. Dd1 never got achievement certificates because she was quiet and well behaved. Even getting top marks in her SATs including 100% in one wasn’t enough to warrant praise! Luckily she didn’t care and realised it was for the naughty kids who did something slightly good or the class suck ups. Dd2 got lots - she was a class suck up!

Depends if it’s an attainment or effort or whatever type of trophy as to if it’s fair….

at my children’s school 2 children from each class get the special achievement award each week….this can be any child for whatever they may have done in any subject or just in general….my son who is academically bright got one for excellent and enthusiastic singing during whole school assembly once 😂 my daughter who is bottom of the class academically got one for always trying her best at phonics and for great writing. They tend to make sure each child in the class gets it at least once in the year I think.

With sport I think it’s obvious - you come first in the race, your team wins?

Same with academic stuff.

If a runner doesn’t win a race, it doesn’t mean she’s not a fast runner. Just not the fastest on that day.

So, what’s the difference? Your daughter is clever just not the cleverest on that day.

Surely you can talk to her about this and reinforce for her that she’s doing well. And that she doesn’t need to be top to know that she’s learning.

Are you the one who’s disappointed? Is she picking this up from you?

But this award has motivated your daughter to put in maximum effort and probably means that she has attained more than she would have if the award wasn’t so prestigious 💁

If a runner doesn’t win a race, it doesn’t mean she’s not a fast runner. Just not the fastest on that day

We aren’t they all meant to be equal at school? You know wearing uniforms to level the playing field - treat them all the same, abide by the same rules - all except for the rewards. It’s laughable.

Is your child as demorilised and demotivated as you believe or is she highly motivated and striving hard to up her game?
It's the law of nature ghat yhere will be winners and loosers.
Do you feel the system is 'wrong'? What would you change?
Are there other areas she might excellent St eg great attendance, sporting achievement, music exams, good behaviour etc. As she seems reward (acknowledgement) motivated I'd be grading her bedroom every Sunday evening and awarding points for doing chores!

My children had the opposite problem as only the children with behavioural issues were given the larger awards at their school and it was all about focusing on difficult children. The weekly awards like pupil of the week were given out quite fairly ie: for acts of kindness, helping out etc and that was really important.
At my own primary school many years ago I was never allowed to score higher than the local shopkeepers daughter, the minister's daughter etc. A child instinctively knows these things and it's very off putting but that doesn't seem to be what's happening with your child.
A more holistic and rounded approach should be taken to prize giving. Could you speak to the board of governors?

Same here. Both my DC are high achieving and well behaved but they never won any of the school awards, which were given to the less able and those with behavioural issues to encourage them.

They both found it Difficult to understand when they were little that however much effort they put in at school or however well they behaved they were never publicly rewarded for it, while the kids who punched and kicked and were horrible to others most of the time got the awards.

Perhaps the answer is to have one award for achievement and one for progress.