Page 7 | Teacher dialect

MaverickGooseGoose · 2023-02-08T18:22:46+00:00

No doubt I'll make a mistake on this, Sod's Law and all that... All the SLT and from what I've heard a lot of the teachers speak is sard east London dialect. Free / three / roof / ruth / we was etc. It's grating on me, if Roof was on the roof and needed free pounds to get off but her mum was coming to get her where was she going? I understand dialect / colloquialisms but some of what they say/write doesn't make sense. Anyone else as irritated as me? It's the same on the radio now, the guy on capital is giving away free fousand pounds for free. Argh.

RobertaFirmino · 09/02/2023 01:42

It's perfectly possible to have a strong regional accent and use English correctly. I know I do. Knowing that you say 'I was' and 'We were' is much more important than the way you pronounce words.

I would say 'We have seen' something like 'Wiv seen' but what I know not to say is 'We seen'.

NowDoYouBelieveMe · 09/02/2023 03:06

Eyeroll85 · 08/02/2023 21:39

I’m absolutely sickened and disgusted by some of the responses in this post.
The comments by some calling out accents/dialects as ‘lazy’, shows complete ignorance and intolerance.
I have a South London accent, having been born and raised in Bermondsey by cockney parents. I am extremely proud of my heritage and my accent.
The London accent has changed a lot now, influenced by different cultures and accents from around the world, so a new dialect seems to be forming.
I can and do change my way of speaking when I am with others who are not from the same background as me but that is only because I have learnt how judgemental people can be.
However, lots of my friends and family do not (and will not, I suspect) change their way of speaking to appease others.
Funnily enough, coming from a poor background and growing up on a council estate we were not offered elocution lessons
at the local youth club or school.
Some of us knew no other way of speaking or even that our way of speaking was so offensively wrong to others.
It is especially frustrating when those who judge us are the people who chose to move to our now gentrified hometowns because they seem such trendy places to live.
It makes my blood boil when privileged people think that anybody who doesn’t speak standard English is an ignorant moron who should know better.
I understand that you feel teachers should be setting an example to pupils, however, branding people ‘lazy’ and making nasty comments or acting like a crime has been committed just shows your own prejudice.
There are so many different ethnicities living in the poorer parts of London that were once occupied by cockneys. English (Standard English at that) is not always the first language (oddly enough, and shocking as it is) and so a new accent and dialect begins to form. Sorry that it’s not perfect English - how shocking us peasants can’t pronounce ‘three/free’ to your satisfaction.

Totally agree.

Lolabear38 · 09/02/2023 03:10

In the early days of my teaching career, it was called standard and non-standard English. I believe we’re not allowed to call it that nowadays though! I had a student teacher in my class with a strong regional accent. The accent was totally fine but her grammar - while normal for the part of the world she was from - was non-standard and she had no idea. The kids were coming in from play one day and I overheard her chatting to one saying ‘Oh, you was froze was you? That’s not nice!’ She literally had no idea this was incorrect as this was the way she’d spoken all her life as had everyone around her. It became a problem when the kids made similar grammatical errors and she couldn’t correct them because she didn’t know they were wrong. I did step in, however, when I caught her ‘correcting’ a student by telling her ‘It’s “you was going down the road, not you were going down the road”’ 🤦🏻‍♀️

BadNomad · 09/02/2023 03:26

I did step in, however, when I caught her ‘correcting’ a student by telling her ‘It’s “you was going down the road, not you were going down the road”’

But could that not mean the child had been saying "I were going to the road..." and she was correcting them by saying 'No, you "was going down the road" not you "were going down the road".' ? The emphasis on the was/were, not the "you", which just showed the child had been talking about herself.

Eyeroll85 · 09/02/2023 04:16

Puffalicious · 08/02/2023 23:03

What ARE you talking about? Have you RTFT? No-one is saying this, no-one. As a born and bred Glaswegian with a very strong accent, I can and do teach Standard English alongside speaking and teaching in my own language (Scots).

Eyeroll85 you're getting your knickers in a twist about working class language and culture being erased. Noone is saying this is what should hapoen: they're saying that educators need to educate about dialect AND Standard English.

The Scots have been shat upon from the high heavens for centuries, especially working class Scots (my family history is Irish and when my grandfather arrived he faced huge prejudice from the Scots as well, Jesus) yet we retain our distinct culture and language whilst recognising we also need to know Standard English too. It's not black and white

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Exactly, it is not black and white!
Where in my post did I say that teachers should not set an example?
I am referring to the many nasty comments that have nothing to do with teachers and are just having a dig.
I also do not agree with your sweeping statement that every Scot knows how to speak Standard English.
There is a demographic that, for numerous reasons, do not speak ‘correctly’.

As for ‘getting my knickers in a twist’, could say the same for anyone on here (yourself included) expressing an opinion.

Eyeroll85 · 09/02/2023 04:25

Eyeroll85 · 09/02/2023 04:16

Exactly, it is not black and white!
Where in my post did I say that teachers should not set an example?
I am referring to the many nasty comments that have nothing to do with teachers and are just having a dig.
I also do not agree with your sweeping statement that every Scot knows how to speak Standard English.
There is a demographic that, for numerous reasons, do not speak ‘correctly’.

As for ‘getting my knickers in a twist’, could say the same for anyone on here (yourself included) expressing an opinion.

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Also, stating that ‘no one on here is saying that’ as if I am a bit simple and oversensitive - oh please!
I am perfectly capable of comprehending simple statements like ‘It’s just laziness…’

QuinkWashable · 09/02/2023 05:13

I speak 'correctly' albeit with a regional accent. Do you mean we all need to talk like we're from the home counties? That that is the 'correct' accent?

Because TBH, nothing would get me switching from TH to F faster than someone suggesting that's the one true English...

I agree with so many of the other people - I'll correct grammar and I'll model clear enunciation of TH/F, but I won't force my kids to speak with a certain accent. Life moves on, accents change, and it's just not something I think is worth heaping on them.

Mind you, I might just be a contrary person - I found myself speaking even more broadly than normal whenever my ex-mil was about, who was the type to tell the kids off for their accent.

sashh · 09/02/2023 05:31

On my PGCE I cringed every time a fellow student spoke because of this.

It annoys me on TV as well, accents are fine but Gordon Ramsey - it's anything not anythink.

I use standard English when teaching and correct students, if they complain I start to speak broad Yorkshire, as I live nowhere near Yorkshire now it makes the point.

Also I have been in classrooms where half the class had parents who didn't speak English so they only knew the local dialect / accent.

watchfulwishes · 09/02/2023 05:56

Puffalicious · 09/02/2023 00:44

You're now back-tracking. OP didn't mean this, and you know it. I don't care who teaches my child or which accent they have (right now a strong N Irish one) as long as they can teach him to speak and write in Standard English. It's not about class, it's about standardisation so everyone in this mixed, diverse, vibrant country can all communicate.

Teachers need to be able to speak Standard English. If you can't, use your skills elsewhere.. I don't understanding quantum physics so I'm not a physicist; I can't cut hair, so I'm not a hairdresser; I'm a vegetarian, so i couldn't be a beef farmer.

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Communication should be two-way, the idea that we all have to use precise grammar rules in general speech is an outdated position. In a diverse community we all need to learn more. The days of the higher/powerful social group demanding the plebs speak their way are gone.

Formal grammar should be taught, but general conversation from teachers can be in regional accents/dialects.

It is actually far more helpful to do this, to teach young people when to use one or the other. Also to model that people like them can join the professions. If you want true social mobility you have to accept accents/dialects.

This whole thread has a strong vein of snobbery running through it, masquerading as practicality. If someone is so ill-informed they get confused by any dialect variation, they need to tend to their own education. Being so ignorant of dialects is not good.

Kanaloa · 09/02/2023 06:53

Puffalicious · 09/02/2023 00:44

You're now back-tracking. OP didn't mean this, and you know it. I don't care who teaches my child or which accent they have (right now a strong N Irish one) as long as they can teach him to speak and write in Standard English. It's not about class, it's about standardisation so everyone in this mixed, diverse, vibrant country can all communicate.

Teachers need to be able to speak Standard English. If you can't, use your skills elsewhere.. I don't understanding quantum physics so I'm not a physicist; I can't cut hair, so I'm not a hairdresser; I'm a vegetarian, so i couldn't be a beef farmer.

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Nope, not backtracking. Simply asking op how her earnest I’m so worried my child won’t learn to speak properly works if the teacher has any other accent or speech impediment.

HarlanPepper · 09/02/2023 06:58

You're talking about accents, not dialects. They teach the difference in school.

Girlswithgoodbodieslikeboyswithferarris · 09/02/2023 07:04

Eyeroll85 · 09/02/2023 04:16

Exactly, it is not black and white!
Where in my post did I say that teachers should not set an example?
I am referring to the many nasty comments that have nothing to do with teachers and are just having a dig.
I also do not agree with your sweeping statement that every Scot knows how to speak Standard English.
There is a demographic that, for numerous reasons, do not speak ‘correctly’.

As for ‘getting my knickers in a twist’, could say the same for anyone on here (yourself included) expressing an opinion.

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Scots speak standard English just as well as any other British nationality. Absolutely no one uses purely Scots.

MeanderingGently · 09/02/2023 07:10

In my student days I remember going to a sit in on a class where the teacher had a very broad accent but didn't seem to realise the impact it had on the children in her class. They were doing a simple spelling test and one of the words was "aunt" which she read out for them to write down. She pronounced it as "ant", and sure enough, all the class spelled it as A-N-T, and afterwards she told them all off for getting it wrong.

It's not snobbish to say I was appalled.

Girlswithgoodbodieslikeboyswithferarris · 09/02/2023 07:17

MeanderingGently · 09/02/2023 07:10

In my student days I remember going to a sit in on a class where the teacher had a very broad accent but didn't seem to realise the impact it had on the children in her class. They were doing a simple spelling test and one of the words was "aunt" which she read out for them to write down. She pronounced it as "ant", and sure enough, all the class spelled it as A-N-T, and afterwards she told them all off for getting it wrong.

It's not snobbish to say I was appalled.

… I pronounce aunt as ant, how else can you possibly pronounce it?

WhatTrophy · 09/02/2023 07:17

MeanderingGently · 09/02/2023 07:10

In my student days I remember going to a sit in on a class where the teacher had a very broad accent but didn't seem to realise the impact it had on the children in her class. They were doing a simple spelling test and one of the words was "aunt" which she read out for them to write down. She pronounced it as "ant", and sure enough, all the class spelled it as A-N-T, and afterwards she told them all off for getting it wrong.

It's not snobbish to say I was appalled.

Rubbish. She'd have also pronounced grass "grass" instead of "grarse" so does that mean teachers with an RP accent can't teach spelling either?

My mum has a northern accent and used to read with my DC. If she told them a word was booooook, they were quite capable of knowing she meant book from about 2yo.

JennyDarlingRIP · 09/02/2023 07:20

This happens at DS' nursery, we live in Essex. He comes out sounding like a TOWIE extra , all we can do is model and correct at home

JennyDarlingRIP · 09/02/2023 07:20

The th f thing is an issue because it does affect spelling/reading

watchfulwishes · 09/02/2023 07:23

MeanderingGently · 09/02/2023 07:10

In my student days I remember going to a sit in on a class where the teacher had a very broad accent but didn't seem to realise the impact it had on the children in her class. They were doing a simple spelling test and one of the words was "aunt" which she read out for them to write down. She pronounced it as "ant", and sure enough, all the class spelled it as A-N-T, and afterwards she told them all off for getting it wrong.

It's not snobbish to say I was appalled.

I can't tell if this is real or satire! Very funny either way.

If it is real, this lack of awareness is mindboggling.

English has non-phonetic spellings all over the place. Including Aunt in huge swathes of the country.

Goingforasong · 09/02/2023 07:28

YANBU I think it is very important for teachers to speak correctly, especially in primary years when children are learning language.

I still believe that I failed to master spoken French because I had a Scottish French teacher who's accent was very confusing.

DilemmaDelilah · 09/02/2023 07:32

@Whyisitsososohard It's not about whether it is possible to understand, it is about teaching children what the correct words and grammar are. If you don't give them that basic understanding how are they ever going to know? How they (and their teachers) choose to speak outside the school is completely up to them, but within the educational environment the children should hear how things are meant to be said. And it is quite possible to say things correctly while still using a regional accent! (Possibly excluding the Irish dropping of the 'h' in th, which is basically the same as the dropping of the k in knock or knob)

echt · 09/02/2023 07:34

I have a Northern accent and speak Standard English, though can speak and write the dialect of my home town.

I was often called in to do the dictation part of EFL exams at the college where I taught, so plainly my short "a" for bath and laugh caused no problems. What seemed to matter was my diction and projection. I did not teach on those courses. Now I think of it most of the EFL teachers had quasi-RP accents. One was Scottish. Not a problem .

As an aside, apparently Byron ripped the piss out of Keats for his common accent, saying grass with a long a: grarse, when any fule knos it rhymes with ass.

Just goes to show how accents change.

BrightSaturn · 09/02/2023 07:37

Good to see another teacher bashing thread. It had been a few hours.

FancyFanny · 09/02/2023 07:44

RobertaFirmino · 09/02/2023 01:42

It's perfectly possible to have a strong regional accent and use English correctly. I know I do. Knowing that you say 'I was' and 'We were' is much more important than the way you pronounce words.

I would say 'We have seen' something like 'Wiv seen' but what I know not to say is 'We seen'.

When you are saying 'wiv seen' you are simply using a regional pronunciation of we've seen, which is not incorrect.

It's like saying 't' shop'- a contraction of 'to the shop' and a perfectly acceptable way to speak in Yorkshire so not incorrect.

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 09/02/2023 07:50

I think people are confusing accent and dialect. Everyone has an accent. Even you people who live within the M25 and think you don't. Some accents pronounce things differently - think of the endless threads with Scottish people like me complaining about children's books which rhyme "scarf" with "giraffe". I would argue that although intensely irritating, "free" instead of three falls into that category.

However common the use of "we was in the park" is, it it grammatically incorrect and unacceptable. The Scottish equivalent is "I seen it" or "I done it" which is similarly wrong.

Spendonsend · 09/02/2023 07:55

Girlswithgoodbodieslikeboyswithferarris · 09/02/2023 07:17

… I pronounce aunt as ant, how else can you possibly pronounce it?

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Long a at the front. Like aaahnt.