to be annoyed at my son’s teacher?

[ChipmunksInAttic]

I have a 9 yo and he’s brilliant at maths, history, geography and he’s a very good reader. We’ve always received good feedback from school so far at parent evenings etc, encouraged for grammar schools.

Today at school he took an equipment which he was specifically told not to play with yesterday, and broke it by mistake. It’s not an expensive thing, and we’ll replace it of course. It was wrong of him for sure, but in my eyes it’s just a mistake.

But the teacher was really cross with him. She pulled me in at school pickup and told me about this. Then she showed me some of his work at school, which she rightfully said was poorly done. She said these are not up to their standards at all, and she was not happy at all with his attitude too. I said I’d talk to him and we’d work on it to get it better.

I’m not saying any of these were wrong, I think in essence she believes her instructions are being ignored and I don’t blame her for complaining about it.

But to be honest presentation of his work was never very good, his notebooks were always messy but given the good feedback we thought they didn’t care about it so much. I’m a bit annoyed we’re being told about this only now, when she’s angry with him. That just makes all the previous praises questionable. I’m also annoyed she made all these complaints in front of him. He already thinks she has other favourites and he’s not one of them. Shouldn’t she have told this to me privately without upsetting and discouraging him? Or did he need this wake up call?

The examples from the OP ARE laziness though - short sentences, not showing working, not using a ruler.

That is different from struggling with handwriting / presentation.

I bet your DH - no matter how messy his handwriting - wouldn't try to do column addition without lining it up, for example. Those are the kinds of skills teachers are trying to teach and it is not helpful to dismiss them.

I think the teacher is making a point that he is not listening and not focusing and it is impacting his work as well as broken equipment. I do understand your point about not raising other things when you are angry, and possibly this is what the teacher has done. However as she had reason to speak with you, she probably just took the opportunity to raise her other concerns, rather than ringing you later in the week.

I think if the complaint was attitude/trying then it seems reasonable for a 9yo to hear, but should be constructive rather than angry. He needs to know to make a difference and she has probably told him lots in class. In my mind it would be different if the issue was he tried really hard but struggled academically, as then he would already be 'aware', so wouldn't need it raising in front of him.

Then he needs to show his working. And put more effort in to making his work neat.

And the equipment is fair enough he wad told not to touch it, how could he forget.

Sounds like the teacher is trying to let you know he's not the little angel you think he is and she knows he can do better

Yes

As someone who was disciplined in anger when I was a child, I have a sort of skewed view that all discipline is wrong and that somehow I don't have to listen to it because I cannot accept it, and it brings trauma back, so I learnt to ignore it.
But there's actually nothing wrong with being told off, and told you could do better. School is the perfect time to be taught that doing better, putting effort in is a requirement in holding down a job in later life or being self-disciplined enough to run your own business.
If you can teach your child that discipline is something they can use for their and others advantage instead of thinking they are above it because of the way it was being delivered, and make it constructive not shameful then really you are doing them a massive service in life.

If your son does get into grammar school, please be aware he will no longer be the big fish in the small pond. I taught many boys who were ‘top of their primary school class’ who were bottom of their grammar school class. They were the sort who had an inflated sense of self, could do no wrong, and the presentation and content of their work was appalling. It didn’t matter though. They were ‘clever’. Mommy said so. And I was just ‘mean’.

It sounds like the teacher is concerned that there's a dip in behaviour, increase in ignoring instructions and a shift towards sloppiness in his work.
I'd expect to be told about this as a parent and I'd expect a teacher to be telling my DC if they weren't doing what they should be, just like I'd expect the teacher to do the same to any other child in the class.

Some people are getting hung up on handwriting / presentation. I've had many students with hard to read handwriting. They still follow instructions and underline with a ruler. It's not about hand writing, it's about a general lack of care.

When they used the tool outside last week, they were allowed to use it then. It sounds like your son wanted to use it, didn't like being told he couldn't and so used it anyway. I know you've said you have problems with him listening, but is he generally allowed to just do whatever he wants to at home? If not, its strange that he has started doing it now. I taught a very bright 8 year old once as a maternity cover and he started acting up but it was only when I started him on work for the next year group up that he started to improve behaviour wise. He was bored. I'm not saying that's the case here of course, but it's important whether it's part of a wider pattern of behaviour.

I was naively hoping for positive encouragement instead I guess

By being angry with the teacher for doing her job? How is that positive? You need to get to grips with my your son is playing up and being disobedient, help him improve his writing and presentation skills and check his homework going forwards. And that's YOUR job, not the teacher's.

'why your son'... apologies for typo.

Purely speculation but it sounds a bit like very academic child getting bored with school.

could be for a few reasons - not being pushed enough or as is the case in a lot of school kids who attain get held to higher standards, they see others who don’t attain to the same level win awards and recognition for improving or the kids that cause trouble get praised not for doing the right thing but for not doing the wrong one.

all of those are important but it’s not uncommon for higher attainers to essentially be forgotten about at schools because the school is looking for value added and who they can get over the minimum thresholds rather than pushing those at the top to get a little more.

I would talk to both school and DC about it and see what both say and make a call from there. You need to ensure your DC isn’t starting to slack off and act out because of the school environment.

also could be bullying and your DC is trying to ‘fit in’ and be cool

Yes, YABVU.

I’ve seen this happen several times.

I have found both through my own children and through work, often with teachers you are just expected to accept what is said and not question an approach or ask for more clarification etc . How you handle this depends on what you hope to achieve. Teachers have different styles and strengths like everyone in any job, how this suits your son again is an individual thing. On this occasion he didn't do as asked and something broke. It is ok for him to know this isn't ok. As for the work presentation I can see why that's thrown you if not raised before. But I think just move on, help your child chalk it up to experience and to continue to work hard and listen.

THIS is your take away?

Up until your post not one person has said anything about gender/sex.. but according to you and your unlinked, unreferenced 'Recent OECD reports' female teachers are purposefully targeting boys. And this, you say, is a case in point.

What utter tosh.

Firstly, I'd like a link please.
Secondly, stop blaming teachers.
Thirdly, where is your hedging? Your nuanced debate? Your invitation to deeper thinking?

All three make for a knee-jerk twist of all facts, worthy of a tabloid journalist. Maybe you're being satirical? If not, just bonkers.

Let me help. It's not because the student is a boy. It is because of the reasons laid out by both the adults involved. ffs

At age 9, I would have expected the work done in class to be done in copybooks which are already lined and ruled, so there is no requirement to rule on the page. Perhaps you could see your way to getting him a suitable copy book if his isn't of the correct type and discuss this with the teacher?
Also, at age 9 I would have expected a child who has been told once by a teacher not to touch some school equipment, to actually leave it alone and not touch it. If none of the other pupils felt the need to touch it why did your DS touch it, especially as he was aware it was flimsy? Was he trying to show off?]
Finally at age 9, I would work on his writing and also telling him that if he is doing maths, he simply must write down his workings, even if the result is incorrect, if the method is correct, marks will be awarded. If there is no method and the result is wrong, he'll get zero. The writing be clear and readable and understandable will matter when he moves in to secondary school as an unreadable written response cannot be marked appropriately. He could be the next Stephen Hawkings with a brilliant mind but until he finishes university, he has to follow the rules in the classroom that everyone else does.

I actually feel sorry for the teacher here. She's clearly been hoping that you would pick up on these things but you haven't and she probably had reached the end of her tether with your son, breaking the equipment would have been the final straw, so let it all out at once.

Give her a break. She's doing her job. Now you do yours.

Oh come on OP.

He's in the wrong. Stop looking for something/someone else to get annoyed at. "I know he was wrong, but..."

Just take it on the chin and move on.

At that age I find that some pupils come unstuck a little; the bright ones who have breezed through and know they are "clever" suddenly find the work is harder and that they are not used to putting in the effort required because it's always been easy for them. Behaviour can then become an issue as they feel a bit unsettled when they are not "the best" anymore. Likewise the quiet grafters sometimes come into their own at this age. It normally sorts itself out if the confident ones are willing to knuckle down a bit.
Sounds like your son just needs to rein it in a bit!

Please don't do this until his attitude improves

She's probably got to the stage where the positive reenforcement doesn't work for your little darling and is bringing out the big guns.

He's going to do so much worse, your heart will drop into your boots by his utterly stupid antics before he's a grown up. Accept he's not perfect and life will be so much easier for both of you.

I have had the experience with several teachers where you keep getting good reports. Nothing mentioned to even work on really. And then something goes wrong and suddenly there’s a host of things that need attention.

To that extent I think YANBU.

BUT my experience has been that actually those things do need attention and always had, really, and it was the previous feedback that was lacking really. They were just letting my kids coast as they were doing well enough and, I guess, the teachers are overworked and cut corners where they felt they could get away with it without it bringing anything or anyone crashing down on them. Once their attention was drawn towards my kids and we started getting feedback on things they could work on, their school work tended to improve in leaps and bounds.

In terms of should they have said it to you in private - I’m not sure. The sudden turnaround in teachers attitude to them certainly caused problems with ours and it was work to get them back to feeling like they could and should try. But I think overall it built resilience. They’d been a bit to use to never hearing that sort of assessment and I don’t think that’s ideal, though obviously they need to be balanced by ones that are a little less skewed to the negative.

@ChipmunksInAttic - I understand where u are coming from. I think you are saying that you wish there had been more continuous feedback about his work and how he should improve on that; rather than all negative feedback being given at once (and combined with him breaking something - which is a bit unrelated as the problems with his work have presumably being going on for a while).

perhaps don’t take it too much to heart about it all being negative at once. Perhaps the teacher thinks - now that the parent is here, it might be good to give other feedback to help him improve as well. I imagine teachers would love to have the time to give continuous feedback; but think that they are probably very over-worked. For this reason, I’d probably keep an eye on his work yourself (look at his class books or his homework). You sound like you are doing good things to help him improve and he will be the better for it.

I think this is actually about slightly changing approach as he is no longer a very young child. It's about getting the right habits now before secondary school expectations increase significantly.

A nine year old shouldn't regularly need reminding to do something, and should absolutely be able to remember from one day to the next not to touch something. So the touching and breaking equipment was not a mistake. It was bad behaviour and rightly he's being told off.

Also sounds like his attitude to work is getting sloppy, not doing the basics they are regularly reminded of. These things don't matter as much in infants but become more important the older they get. Infants teachers spend time working out what children are trying to say and do.

Hopefully being properly told off in front of his parent will cause him to realise that he needs to try harder.

So you need to be clear with him that he understands the expectations of school, and does them. And that you don't want to have to have another conversation with the teacher like that again.