To ask mums of previously challenging boys for reassurance!

[NamechangedJan2022]

I know Mumsnet doesn’t believe there are any differences between boys and girls, but I disagree, as does everyone I know in RL.

My boys are 7 and 4. They are both very challenging in different ways. Eldest doesn’t have much of a tendency to tantrum but is very argumentative and oppositional, and likes to provoke. Can be a delight and very caring boy (if a friend gets hurt for example) but has always been oppositional since he could speak in full sentences.

Youngest has huge meltdowns when things don’t go his way. He’s also very easy to delight so it goes both ways for him, he’s either very very happy or losing his shit. I thought we were coming out of the tantrums as he reached 4 but he’s going through yet another huge tantrumming phase, feet stamping, hitting, jumping up and down in anger.

Does it get better? Please say it does?!

My now 11 year old DS is a delight. Top of the class, mature, independent, helpful and loving.

Up until 9 we went through some VERY challenging behaviour. His anger was terrifying. He reserved most of it for me and himself, including trying to jump out of the window/strangling himself/and more...

We all turned a corner when he was 9 and diagnosed with ADHD and dyspraxia and got treatment. We learnt to let things slide (like how he uses cutlery/can't tie his shoelaces/can't open a door using keys) and he calmed down loads and is just so much happier.

DS2 was always a lot easier although stubborn as anything and keeps every emotion close to his chest until it bursts out. Aged 8 he is definitely going through a very tough phase (disobeying us, damaging things, refusing to do homework). He has the same diagnosis as his DB but isn't treated for it at the moment. However we are more patient as we know he's neurodiverse and we're using different tactics.

Having said all that, my mum always said that she adored my DB except when he was 8 and 9. She said the summer he was 8 was the only summer holidays where she was relieved when he went back to school.

Good luck OP it can get better but it often requires you to adapt.

Can you identify any triggers? We realised that we were getting at DS1 all the time for tiny misdemeanors which made him feel rubbish. When DH and I agreed to let small things go, the family atmosphere really improved .

What you're describing isn't sex specific. It could be some sort of neurodivergence.

And another thing - psychiatrists have said both my Dses are hypersensitive. Which means they "feed" off my emotions. So whenever I was stressed, angry and sad, they just couldn't cope. It was a vicious circle. I really had to work on my stress and anxiety in order to help them.

Following as I have one like this. Gets severely angry and upset if things don't go his way.

All the usual parenting techniques/punishments don't seem to work 🤷🏼‍♀️

Just read this thread about a girl as.an example of sex not being relevant:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4736967-neurodivergent-dd-so-argumentative

Similar story to Invincible, here.

DS1 was very hard. He was eventually diagnosed with dyslexia/dyspraxia but with hindsight ASD is probably there as well.

He and DS2 argued black was white and tended to wind each other up appallingly.

They are now adults, get on really well , successful and balanced in all ways (though neither have dated, which is a shame).
They are really good at managing other people's behaviour, from family techniques learned to manage them!

Hang in there, OP!

I thought mine would be climbing out his bedroom window, off stealing cars.

High energy was one issue that didn't outlast his primary years.

Keep plugging away at relationship, responsibility, respect, staying calm, negotiating.

Everything else will fall into place if you can keep your relationship on track.

I had a 5 yo that had massive struggles with anger and exploding. We used ASD informed approaches and it really helped (no diagnosis but definitely traits and family background). Delightful 15 yo son now. Couldn’t be prouder of him. Thoughtful, sensitive (in a good way), mature, funny.

And this, too.

Looking after yourself is really important.

Yes, but in our case not until the other side of puberty.

He's lovely now though - so laid back you wouldn't believe it is the same person.

@InvincibleInvisibility hour poor DS, that must’ve been devastating to see him wanting to harm himself like that. Glad he is so much more settled now.

Any particular techniques people have used that have helped? I’ve searched parenting techniques for autistic children but it doesn’t come up with much other than what to me sounds like every day suggestions - rewarding positive behaviour, negative consequences etc.

Consequences do tend to work with DS1 but if that’s the only way I can get him to behave it’s not going to work for long!

Trigger wise honestly it’s when they don’t get their way (either of them). DS2 gets very hangry so try and keep his appetite topped up whilst leaving enough of a gap before meals otherwise he won’t eat them, and just become hungrier long term. Thats a tricky one!

I admit it’s almost always worse when I’m stressed, DS1 especially definitely picks up on my energy. But this morning we were on the way to school in plenty of time when DS2 decides he’s furious at the fact that DS1 is faster on the scooter than him and all hell broke loose. I know he’s only 4 (just turned) but it’s this sort of thing all the time and it’s the way he reacts, screaming at random passers-by and hitting DS/me. It’s so hard to calm him when he’s like that.

It's all about cooling it down.

So don't think in terms of punishments for bad behaviour think about strategies to support better behaviour.
Try not to get cross. Use your maturity and vocabulary to express the emotions his behaviour is suggesting. And diffuse and distract (humour).

So you'd say 'oh Fred, you're so upset! You are so frustrated that Bill is fast on his scooter! That feels horrid doesn't it? You are great at eating peas though, and gobbling up icecream really fast! I bet no one could beat you at that!"

If you can rope your older son in to help, that would be good. He'd join in the silliness of distracting him, instead of the general rage about who is faster. It also indirectly teaches him how to be aware of and manage his own emotions.

Have a silly song collection to start when you can see someone getting stressed.

If there was full on raging meltdown and stubborn refusal going on, I'd sit and watch a funny cat video or similar on my phone. I'd giggle. Say 'aw, how sweet'. Pretty soon the stroppy child would be peering over my shoulder wanting to watch. Then we'd have a cuddle and watch a few more.

'Are you feeling better now? That's good, let's have pancakes for tea, as it's been a rough day'.

So often we pander to adults who are having a tough time. We expect children to snap out of it and do what they are told.

Thanks @picklemewalnuts , good suggestions. I always acknowledge feelings with both DC, eldest whilst tricky doesn’t have these rages so that kind of thing does work, but once my youngest is in a rage nothing helps except time and getting his way!

The second suggestion about the funny video etc is good, again that sort of thing usually is ok with even DS if we’re in the house. He does calm down, but when we’re on the way to school and need to get there, it’s those situations where it goes tits up. As I have no choice but to hurry him along, or also when we’re with friends or family, when I feel like I “have” to tell him off for being such a turd.

It is hard! We can only do our best, in each situation. Tricky blighters!

@picklemewalnuts they really are. Do you think you’ll seek a diagnosis for your eldest for ASD? How old are your DS’ now?

No we're well past that! 22 and 26. We think DH has ASD, too, and most of his family!

DS1 is pretty settled. Unless he gets into trouble at some point, he's pretty happy with where he is.

Rewards, threats, privileges etc do not work for most neurodivergent children, so you're reading the wrong content. Being led by them, being sensitive to their triggers and building trust with them is key. Their behaviour is their way of communicating. I know that's corny but very true. Speaking as mum of 2 non neurotypical teens. We've been through the horrors and hopefully coming out the other side. Forget what you think is right and normal, do what works for your family.

My DS too. No SN or ND, just needed to grow up. Went from everyone's designated horror, while obviously I was a terrible parent who imposed no discipline, to "isn't he a polite mature boy!" at age 11-12. <shrug>

My son was a little shit, tantrums, kicking off, screaming, you name it. What worked for us was completely ignoring it, I mean even in shops I blanked him and would only talk to him once he calmed down. It was all chosen behaviour. He came through that phase and touch wood hasn't hit another.....

Consequences/threats etc do work with my kids - as in, they work at the time @FearMe. I don’t think they’re working longer term though, my eldest forgets and I imagine my youngest is too young.

Good to hear he’s well settled @picklemewalnuts

Sorry to hear of the other little shits!

My eldest calls me names when I tell him off/he doesn’t get his way. Only things like “meanie” but I’m worried this is going to get worse as he gets older! If I give him a look he eventually says sorry…but again it doesn’t stop him next time.

One of my highlights was 'you're worse than the dursleys!' And 'Ugly ol' troll!'

Clearly too much Harry Potter!

Mine said I love daddy more. I just told him I loved him more then daddy, he didn't have a response to that. I know it's hard and there's been times I've cried... but it's a phase and at the end of the day there's always a hug and kiss.

Mine has behaved exactly like both your sons in the past (and still to a lesser extent now).

She’s a girl though so obviously not relevant 🙄

My ds was so badly behaved between 2 and 4. He had boundless energy, was lippy ( as soon as he could string two words together, I quite literally stopped going out in public with him as he would lie down on any hard surface and throw a fit. We live in France, crowds would gather- I kid you not.

School changed him. And once we could, we got him into athletics and he ran off that excess energy. He’s now 21 and has excelled academically and is actually quite shy and quiet.