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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think drunk teen shouldn't be in paeds A&E?

397 replies

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 10:35

NC for this in case picked up by the likes the of Daily Fail etc.

Took DD to paeds A&E last night due to concerns about dehydration after 5 days of gastro bug and decreasing tolerance for fluids and no wet nappy for 12 hours. Luckily she is OK and we were allowed home after some anti sickness meant she could tolerate water, but the place was full of really sick babies and toddlers. Dr said 4 cases of D&V/dehydration, plus a query sepsis child, croup etc.

I heard someone approach the nurses station and say they were bringing a drunk 15 year old and his parents round from adult A&E, no particular reason given, so assume this was purely based on his age. He did say dad was struggling to manage said drunk teen.

At this point I knew we were going home, so no real skin in the game, but I thought to myself that if the teen was that drunk, was paeds A&E really the place to bring him when he would have received presumably the same medical care in adult A&E?

As I say, no big deal to me as we were leaving, but I'm not sure I'd have been happy with a drunk/loud/aggressive/silly teen in the cubicle next to us. More so for the other parents and children who were really very very poorly and had clearly been there a long time, were very tired, waiting for a bed on the ward etc.

So - aibu to think drunk teen probably should have stayed in adult A&E and that it's not really desirable for a 15 year old who's had a few too many to be in the same (very small) department as lots of really unwell younger children?

OP posts:
Psychonabike · 05/02/2023 11:37

Well if one of my kids made a stupid mistake to be drunk enough to need medical attention at 15 I would be glad that they'd be in a paediatric department where all the paediatric sized equipment is -you know, just in case they need intubated or something life saving like that...

Easternext · 05/02/2023 11:37

@Butterflyfluff yes you do go to a&e for things like this I was sent their by walk In with my daughter she had a vomiting bug for 6 days became dehydrated and needed a drip for 12 hours!!!

NeonBoomerang · 05/02/2023 11:38

I work in adult A&E and I've never cared for a patient under the age of sixteen. Sixteen and seventeen year olds are treated by us if it's an 'adult problen', ie if they're intoxicated, but I'd expect anyone under that age to be treated next door in paeds

Offdutypead · 05/02/2023 11:38

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:37

Who said anything about admission? Or was A&E. I have no idea if he'd even been properly triaged, but there was definitely no mention of admission.

Show quote history

In our area they are nearly always admitted.

BrokenHill · 05/02/2023 11:38

This reply has been deleted

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GrapefruitGin · 05/02/2023 11:38

A dehydrated toddler is absolutely an emergency.

Donotgogentle · 05/02/2023 11:39

NeedAHoliday2021 · 05/02/2023 11:32

Last week our hospital was really full. We had a drink 17 year old who needed to be admitted and it was decided an adult ward was most appropriate. To do that we had to complete a full risk assessment and declare to nhs England. Age 15 would go to a children’s ward with no discussion. We do have a bay for older teens and they tend to be mh patients. It’s really hard as their needs are so vastly different to a 7 year old for example but it’s still the right place for them because they are children and need paediatric knowledge.

This was my experience when DS age 10 was admitted to a paediatric ward. There was a children’s bay and an adolescent bay and yes sadly (except for a case of appendicitis) most of them had MH issues - self harm or overdosing.

It wasn’t really the best place for a 10 year old but no way should those teenagers have been on an adult ward, far too vulnerable.

Original poster
Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:39

@AgeingDoc

"Teens, and even pre teens engage in "adult" behaviours sometimes, but that doesn't make them adults (even if they think it does!) and it's inappropriate to treat them as such. They're kids. Daft kids frequently. Irritating kids often. Misled kids sometimes. Very troubled kids on occasion. But still kids, whether they, or anyone else, like it or not.

You have so very eloquently summed up why my pondering was clearly very wrong!

OP posts:
HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 05/02/2023 11:40

He’s a 15 year old kid, of course he belongs in paeds, not with the adults. Sticking an incapacitated 15 year old on an adult ward is a safeguarding nightmare.

searchingforme · 05/02/2023 11:40

I know it can seem strange having weeks old Babies next to 17 year old but all children go to paediatrics until over 18. Recently my 8 yr old dd was in hospital for quite a while she was placed next to a 15 year old with an eating disorder (anyone who’s been in a hospital knows you hear everything in a bay).

This poor child was sectioned and my daughter had to watch her be carted away by security to go to the treatment room for a forced NG feed. It was extremely distressing for dd and she asked a lot of questions personally I don’t feel she was ready to learn about eating disorders at her age. This poor girl should have been in a specialist mental health eating disorders unit but she had been in standard nhs paeds ward for weeks.

Offdutypead · 05/02/2023 11:42

Psychonabike · 05/02/2023 11:37

Well if one of my kids made a stupid mistake to be drunk enough to need medical attention at 15 I would be glad that they'd be in a paediatric department where all the paediatric sized equipment is -you know, just in case they need intubated or something life saving like that...

This is totally not the reason. 15yolds are much physiologically closer to adults.

Original poster
Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:43

LeapingCat · 05/02/2023 11:30

Sometimes you can’t help but hear other people’s info. I was in a room next to the nurses station last year, door slightly propped open as they were keeping an eye on me, and heard a nurse phoning a family to inform them of a death. Also the full handovers between day and night shift.

OP, I hope both your baby and the 15 year old were ok. Paediatric A and E was absolutely the right place for both of them.

I think some posters think I was listening in on purpose. I can assure them I would have much rather been at home watching Death In Paradise on the recorder than sitting in A&E for hours. You literally cannot help but overhear sometimes can you.

OP posts:
Original poster
Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:44

searchingforme · 05/02/2023 11:40

I know it can seem strange having weeks old Babies next to 17 year old but all children go to paediatrics until over 18. Recently my 8 yr old dd was in hospital for quite a while she was placed next to a 15 year old with an eating disorder (anyone who’s been in a hospital knows you hear everything in a bay).

This poor child was sectioned and my daughter had to watch her be carted away by security to go to the treatment room for a forced NG feed. It was extremely distressing for dd and she asked a lot of questions personally I don’t feel she was ready to learn about eating disorders at her age. This poor girl should have been in a specialist mental health eating disorders unit but she had been in standard nhs paeds ward for weeks.

My god, that's awful. Hope your DD is better now.

OP posts:
Butterflyfluff · 05/02/2023 11:44

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:33

I mean "Is this really how people use A&E?" sounds very much like a criticism, but okay.

Show quote history

Maybe I should have said ‘Is this really how people have to use A&E?’

Its appalling that there’s such a lack of options and the back stop is A&E

ThisWOMANWontWheesht · 05/02/2023 11:44

Yes a child should be in the paediatric section!

My DD had severe mental health issues in her teens, and was often in paed A&E and/or admitted to a children's ward for the night following self harm, drug or alcohol misuse, MH crisis. She was tall and grown up looking but needed specialist care, and always had to see the on-call child psychiatrist. She was extremely vulnerable and unwell, and the boy who was the subject of the gobsmackingly unprofessional chatter you overheard may well have been too.

zingally · 05/02/2023 11:45

Even "silly" teens deserve treatment appropriate for their ages and bodies.

The very nature of A&E means that you can predict who is going to rock up. YABVU.

zingally · 05/02/2023 11:45

*can't

ancientgran · 05/02/2023 11:45

Butterflyfluff · 05/02/2023 11:03

I’m more surprised you took your child to A&E as it’s sounds neither an accident or an emergency - surely there were other options?

Is this really how people use A&E?

Five day gastric bug, dry nappy for 12 hours, unable to take fluids. A&E sounds right to me. What other options do you think there are on a Saturday night.

OP I hope your little one is doing OK.

Intrepidescape · 05/02/2023 11:45

In my city the children’s hospital has a permanent child protection office so that so social workers can get involved as soon as doctors request.

TheaBrandt · 05/02/2023 11:46

One day your own little poppet may well be a “drunk teen”. All under 18s can go to paediatric unit in our local hospital and it was suggested when we went at new year with a 16 year old. Ours has a teen room within the children’s bit with chargers

searchingforme · 05/02/2023 11:48

@Us3r21422 thank you she is a lot better still under follow up. Hope your child get better soon.

UserNameSameGame · 05/02/2023 11:48

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:20

This is actually a really helpful response, thank you flamingoes.

What you say about compassion fatigue makes a lot of sense, I hadn't thought about it like that at all.

To clarify, I didn't overtly think he should be any less of a medical priority, but completely appreciate it came off that way by suggesting/wondering if paeds A&E was the right place for him. I hadn't considered the specialist skills and knowledge required to treat a child for the effects of intoxication.

I suppose i was a bit surprised and maybe inadvertently led by the response of the doctors I heard and it was one of those moments where you think "blimey, I'm pleased we're going home now". They were really quite casual and I heard the male handing over saying "oh yes, he's definitely had a few". He did open with "intoxicated 15 year old male", but his tone quickly changed to a much more blasé one and I suppose that led my train of thought.

I'm sorry about your DD and hope she's okay.

Show quote history

I really think that on the basis of your update you should be making a complaint so these staff members can get some support. They were in the wrong.

You were BVVU, but it really restores faith that you have taken that feedback onboard 💕

Original poster
Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 11:48

That sounds like quite a good set up @TheaBrandt

OP posts:
Offdutypead · 05/02/2023 11:49

ancientgran · 05/02/2023 11:45

Five day gastric bug, dry nappy for 12 hours, unable to take fluids. A&E sounds right to me. What other options do you think there are on a Saturday night.

OP I hope your little one is doing OK.

Show quote history

Both sound absolutely standard presentations for a Saturday night shift to me. Had I been that registrar trying to juggle beds I would have been relieved your LO was tolerating fluids so I could admit the teen- much safer to discharge a toddler who is unlikely to have taken any illicit substances, been the victem of exploitation or choke on their own vomit.

ittakes2 · 05/02/2023 11:49

when your child is 15 - reread this thread and think about whether you would want them to be in an adult or child A&E.
To be honest its a bit stupid of you to even suggest this - peds doctors are trained in children and the adult a&e doctors are not.
Its also none of your business - drunk teens are common (unfort) and I am guessing there is a good reason his parent though he needed to be in A&E. He could have also been suicidal but this was not something they would share with a random in the waiting room.