To think drunk teen shouldn't be in paeds A&E?

[Us3r21422]

NC for this in case picked up by the likes the of Daily Fail etc.

Took DD to paeds A&E last night due to concerns about dehydration after 5 days of gastro bug and decreasing tolerance for fluids and no wet nappy for 12 hours. Luckily she is OK and we were allowed home after some anti sickness meant she could tolerate water, but the place was full of really sick babies and toddlers. Dr said 4 cases of D&V/dehydration, plus a query sepsis child, croup etc.

I heard someone approach the nurses station and say they were bringing a drunk 15 year old and his parents round from adult A&E, no particular reason given, so assume this was purely based on his age. He did say dad was struggling to manage said drunk teen.

At this point I knew we were going home, so no real skin in the game, but I thought to myself that if the teen was that drunk, was paeds A&E really the place to bring him when he would have received presumably the same medical care in adult A&E?

As I say, no big deal to me as we were leaving, but I'm not sure I'd have been happy with a drunk/loud/aggressive/silly teen in the cubicle next to us. More so for the other parents and children who were really very very poorly and had clearly been there a long time, were very tired, waiting for a bed on the ward etc.

So - aibu to think drunk teen probably should have stayed in adult A&E and that it's not really desirable for a 15 year old who's had a few too many to be in the same (very small) department as lots of really unwell younger children?

I’ve got a nearly 15 that’s 6ft … he might look intimidating especially in his joggers and hoodie teen uniform but he would be 100% out of his depth in adult A and E …

you got the care you needed for your child , that 15 year old needs and deserves the same carec

Do you think that parents should be embarrassed by their children doing childish things?

i agree
how on earth did you know about the croup, query sepsis and D & V

It's not great is it. I could also hear them discussing my DD including medical history.

Possible further drop drip feed - patient was accompanied by friend as well as parents so I can only assume he would have made Dr's aware of any of the other issues you mention and these weren't discussed in a handover but obviously no one can assume!

You don't know what other medical reason there might be for him being in A and E (related to alcohol or not) . He may be injured or very seriously ill.

Hope you get a clue before your child hits the teens.

Big children are still children. Personally I think it's more annoying when parents of little kids see fit to bring along the whole family to clog up the A&E waiting room because they can't sort out childcare in time, but that's probably because I am well beyond that stage. People are at different life stages and the NHS is for everyone.

The NHS doesn't seem to know what to do with older teens. A 15 year old is very definitely a child so should be in the children's department, but it's not great when your 16 and 17 year olds are deemed old enough to go in the adult's department either.

Dr specifically told us there were 4 cases of D&V in last night. The query sepsis was being discussed on the other side of our curtain after the priority call was put over the tannoy and the croup is admittedly self diagnosed but I thought seemed obvious with the stridor I could hear from the poor thing.

Sometimes you can’t help but hear other people’s info. I was in a room next to the nurses station last year, door slightly propped open as they were keeping an eye on me, and heard a nurse phoning a family to inform them of a death. Also the full handovers between day and night shift.

OP, I hope both your baby and the 15 year old were ok. Paediatric A and E was absolutely the right place for both of them.

I think it's pretty embarrassing for a 15 year old to be in amongst the toddlers because they've had too much to drink, yeah. I think anyone drinking so much they end up in A&E is embarrassing tbh. Doesn't mean I don't think he deserves medical attention (he does), or that he should be in paeds (I think this is fine). But I wouldn't be happy if I had to take my DS to A&E because he drank too much, and yeah, I would be embarrassed. I'm sure the 15 year old in question will learn from the experience and hopefully no repeats.

Christ OP, I think you need a nap. Also, intoxicated doesn’t necessarily mean drunk so I wouldn’t assume.

Last week our hospital was really full. We had a drink 17 year old who needed to be admitted and it was decided an adult ward was most appropriate. To do that we had to complete a full risk assessment and declare to nhs England. Age 15 would go to a children’s ward with no discussion. We do have a bay for older teens and they tend to be mh patients. It’s really hard as their needs are so vastly different to a 7 year old for example but it’s still the right place for them because they are children and need paediatric knowledge.

Children will see lots of upsetting things in A&E
A 15 year old is classed as a child, it’s not exclusive to really young ones

When mine were young there wasn’t even separate waiting areas for children. Everyone in together waiting for hours, including the guys from the local prison handcuffed to guards

In my home country people see their children's GP until 18/19.
(I was told to move after graduation from secondary school).

I mean "Is this really how people use A&E?" sounds very much like a criticism, but okay.

Coming on to agree with the other HCPs on this thread. Intoxicated teens is standard fare in peads A&E. They absolutely do need to be treated as children not adults, not least because their brains are still developing and as others mentioned safeguarding concerns. IME (22 years god help me) we would try keep them away from much younger DCs, but if it was a busy night then c'est la vie. BTW the mood music is very much towards treating 16&17 you as children rather than adultifying younger teens.

Why would he be seen else where he is a child!! You say doctors or nurses weren't happy am sure the doctors in adult hospitals aren't happy to see drunks either. Do you know staff there or just ear wigging all night you seem to know an awful lot off what's gone on In their.

He’s a child, possibly recently unconscious as a result of alcohol and in a serious enough state to be admitted overnight to a ward. From a safeguarding point adult a&e is not the place for a vulnerable child.

That's interesting, thanks holiday.

You may not have had any skin in the game but as you are finding out, a lot us do as we're parents of teenagers who very much want them treated appropriately should they need medical care.

Your defensive response to people suggesting your poorly baby shouldn't have been in A&E is the same emotion us mums of teens were feeling when reading your op.

My DS has a significant medical condition that often requires immediate medical treatment and ward stays. When he was under 17 he stayed in the children’s hospital as that was the team that led his care from 6 when he was diagnosed onwards until he was transferred to the adult teams.
By 14 he was 6ft with a beard and body hair. But still frightened and upset he wasn’t at home and having to tolerate painful and unpleasant procedures that he struggled with like any child would.

During one admission he started refusing to use the toilet on the ward to the point that he became really constipated as he was often on a drip or having infusions and oxygen that meant to had to stay on the ward. After days of this and a lot of upset he admitted that one of the mums on the ward in with her younger child had been loudly complaining that a man child was using the boys ward toilet and it was wrong and he should be in the adult hospital and she was going to complain etc etc.

Just maybe focus on yourself and leave other people to the medical and nursing teams who will decide the best place for them to be cared for.

they got rid of our adolescent ward some years ago, sadly

I worked in paeds for part of my career and intoxicated teenagers - mostly alcohol but sometimes drugs - were very much part of a regular weekend. Not the most enjoyable part of the job for sure, but they are still children and they do need medical attention so a paediatric department is very much the right place for them. Well really an adolescent/young people's unit would be the right place, for older teens too, as adult care is often far from ideal for this age group even once they are deemed old enough, but not many places have that facility unfortunately. In the absence of that option, paeds is the next best thing.
I'm surprised the staff were surprised as it seems pretty much normal procedure to me, and disappointed that it was obvious to other patients. But I guess that ultimately none of us is perfect and it's a very stressful job, especially at the moment.
But yes, it is unreasonable to object to a paediatric patient being treated in a paediatric area, whatever the reason they need treatment. Teens, and even pre teens engage in "adult" behaviours sometimes, but that doesn't make them adults (even if they think it does!) and it's inappropriate to treat them as such. They're kids. Daft kids frequently. Irritating kids often. Misled kids sometimes. Very troubled kids on occasion. But still kids, whether they, or anyone else, like it or not.
I appreciate that when your own children are small, a hulking great teen seems like a different species, and definitely not childlike at all, but I think your perspective on that might change once yours reach that stage OP. Of course they are different to small children but they are also not adults.

Who said anything about admission? Or was A&E. I have no idea if he'd even been properly triaged, but there was definitely no mention of admission.

The worst thing I saw on the children’s ward was a punch in the next room between parents. Police called, security, kids being moved out of the way.