To think drunk teen shouldn't be in paeds A&E?

[Us3r21422]

NC for this in case picked up by the likes the of Daily Fail etc.

Took DD to paeds A&E last night due to concerns about dehydration after 5 days of gastro bug and decreasing tolerance for fluids and no wet nappy for 12 hours. Luckily she is OK and we were allowed home after some anti sickness meant she could tolerate water, but the place was full of really sick babies and toddlers. Dr said 4 cases of D&V/dehydration, plus a query sepsis child, croup etc.

I heard someone approach the nurses station and say they were bringing a drunk 15 year old and his parents round from adult A&E, no particular reason given, so assume this was purely based on his age. He did say dad was struggling to manage said drunk teen.

At this point I knew we were going home, so no real skin in the game, but I thought to myself that if the teen was that drunk, was paeds A&E really the place to bring him when he would have received presumably the same medical care in adult A&E?

As I say, no big deal to me as we were leaving, but I'm not sure I'd have been happy with a drunk/loud/aggressive/silly teen in the cubicle next to us. More so for the other parents and children who were really very very poorly and had clearly been there a long time, were very tired, waiting for a bed on the ward etc.

So - aibu to think drunk teen probably should have stayed in adult A&E and that it's not really desirable for a 15 year old who's had a few too many to be in the same (very small) department as lots of really unwell younger children?

Because I have RTFT, unlike so many posters, I obviously think YABU but well done for taking it on the chin OP and listening to what others have had to say, so often you see people just ignoring sensible posters and sticking to their view but fair play, you've absolutely not done that.
Hope your little one is on the mend.

I've had this experience and totally agree.

@ancientgran

There's. Real lack of compassion for the parents in your post.

Not in my closest a&e. It's 16.

Doctors who treat kids are trained differently than the adult ones and this is why under 18s are usually sent to child A&E. For example kids bones are softer than adults and still growing. So dealing with a fracture in kids is different than that of an adult. It all needs to be taken into consideration. They also have better access to services for children who are drunk. He/She may well have been spiked or may have mental health issues which have led to it in which case children's doctors are required or may have accidently consumed something as opposed to deliberately getting drunk, I recall a friend's child of 10 managing to drink a whole vodka and coke and being very ill over it after muddling up drinks at a pub party. Whether they disturb you or not. So would a child who has been in a car accident and is screaming in pain. You don't know the circumstances each admittance is different.

I'm not sure I really understand what your issue is? I dunt particularly want anyone drunk around sick children, whether they're 15 or 50. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned his age but no doubt I'd have been called out for that too! Are you actually 15, is that why you're so offended? Or is that you have a 15 year old and you've deemed this a personal attack

ex A&E here and about to hand you your arse on a platter. You don’t think a drunk 15yo should be around sick kids - because they are sick. Yet it’s completely acceptable for the drunk 15yo to be around adult patients in an A&E, some who are really sick? That’s okay? What makes kids snd their parents special that they get a ‘pass’ from this but the really ill 90yo woman can happily suck it up? That’s what you are saying and it’s batshit frankly.

Yes, of course the paed A&E grumbled, I can well imagine as they didn’t want to deal with it, but again what makes them so special? Here’s a newsflash, not all patients sit on laps or are nicely contained in beds with rails up and they need to do their job and deal with that.

I would have booted a 15yo to paeds the second they came in. They are 15yo irrespective. It’s certainly not as though we couldn’t deal with a drunk 15yo considering the volume of absolute drunk fuckwits that parade through A&E, together with the rest of the zoo. But essentially they should be no more our problem than your child should be our problem.

The other thing is, no way a drunk 15yo was in A&E, let alone transferred from one to another, if they didn’t need actual medical attention. Having a bit too much as a teen, feeling sick, and vomiting into a bucket does not constitute A&E attention. The advice would be for parents to take them home, hang them over the toilet etc. They must have needed actual medical attention. If they were up and mobile, doesn’t sound like acute alcohol poisoning, from which the odd young person has died after a huge binge, and we can try and neutralise what’s in their system in those cases. That is definitely not in the ‘kid is generally drunk, being a dickhead, vomiting, just needs to ride the porcelain bus and sleep it off’ bucket. I’m guessing they injured themselves otherwise while being a drunk dickhead and that was where treatment was required. Which, as a 15yo, drunk or not, they should receive in paeds.

Hmm I think if you read my posts I clearly stated that it was pure speculation as we had no idea how he was behaving BUT if he was being overly aggressive I’m talking loud shouting/ swearing throwing stuff violent behaviour. Then yes I think other people shouldn’t be criticised for worrying how this would effect there younger children or want to protect them. I said there’s no perfect answer.

I will be sure to let you know currently the oldest is 6 so no no swearing as of yet thanks!!!

I live with my step son who is 14 who has severe anger issues and I see the effects it has on the younger children every time he erupts.

So ridiculous... your family member has anger issues so unknown child in A&E will have? Think about that. (before you post again)

Children up to the age of the 16 are cared for in Paeds ED.

Ok not sure I need your permission to post.

for the love of god actually read what I’ve put!! IF IF IF THIS WAS THE CASE!

I doubt very much you actually have any interest in this post at all and are purely looking for confrontation as nothing you have contributed has been of any note to anything it’s purely been antagonising.

All I have ever claimed is yes it was the right place for him being 15 BUT (now stay with me) IF he had been overly aggressive and very distributive I think in an ideal world there should have been a different option as the other people there what ever there age have to right to access a public service without feeling scared or uncomfortable.

My reference to step son was purely to highlight that even though they are 14/15 they can still be very threatening to anyone especially younger children.

@Us3r21422 if the child is ill enough to be at A&E they are unlikely to be drunkenly riotous and having fun. I know teens who had their stomachs pumped at that age - that kind of thing seems more likely.

I know with a baby, 15 feels old. But there is no way I'd want a 15 year old on an adult ward (where their parents would not be allowed to stay overnight, so they'd be unaccompanied) due to safeguarding

Exactly this, people are so full of shit.

As discussion regarding NHS pressures swells and a regular watcher of "24h in A&E" I reserve a special contempt for those, young or old who arrive, drunk, at A&E. I have seen estimations (Police and Hospitals) of up to 70% of arrivals, especially at week-end periods. Mo-Fri A&E's intake is by comparison more subdued. But then 3m+ people take up bruising contact sports and drinking at the weekend, The unavoidable bulge delivers peak stress to A&E's staff. There seems to be no shame exhibited by those attempting to shorten the life of their liver, so I am happy to be called a miserable git, if this view is soundly caned in the messages that follow.

I’ve been in A&E with a self harming teen when another teen has been there as a result of their own (intentional or otherwise) particular self injurious actions. Each had a right to be there and I absolutely know that if either child could have caused distress to others in the vicinity then staff would have done their level best to ensure they were put in a side room if at all possible.
I also have a daughter with emetophobia and contamination OCD. Trust me when I say that taking her to A&E when it has been necessary is no walk in the park due to the high likelihood of vomit from any direction at any given moment. We have to deal with it. So do you.
If my daughter is to be shown compassion in her life, given that she has a complex set of diagnoses, likewise my son with his mental health problems, then it starts with us showing tolerance of and empathy towards others.

The last time I was in A&E with my DC our bed was adjacent to the chief nurse's desk. He spent 2 hours on the phone outlining all the cases in the dept in huge detail - he was making the case for extra staff which his dept urgently needed. It was impossible not to hear the details (it was 2am and we were both trying to sleep & were actively trying not to listen). Curtains certainly aren't sound proof.

I would have played it by ear and if he was trouble and caused a disturbance in the ward I would have spoken up.

And you’d expect staff to do what?

When my son was a baby he was on the child's ward of the hospital with other babies and toddlers, there was a young man I guess 15 in the room opposite who Had attempted suicide, he was unstable and get shouting and swearing saying he was good to do it again. The nurse was getting annoyed and said he shouldn't be placed there.

Well she was clearly in the wrong job and would hate our paeds which always seems to be half full of CAMHs patients who are treated with kindness and understanding at all times.

The nurse was getting annoyed and said he shouldn't be placed there.

How appallingly unprofessional.

What atrocious behaviour by the nurse.

Paediatric services are for minors. A 15yo who needs treatment for alcohol poisoning/self-harm/suicidal ideation/any other reason absolutely has a right to be there.

There isn't a separate system for nice, quiet, very young children. If you need to use a public service, you do have to accept that other members of the public will be there, warts and all. You have a right to be safe, of course, but not necessarily a right to be comfortable and to screen other users for suitability. Yes, hospital is often noisy and uncomfortable and gross. You look after your own child and try to mitigate it as best you can.

This.

"I would have played it by ear and if he was trouble and caused a disturbance in the ward I would have spoken up."

And what would you expect to happen?
When autistic ds was in hospital he found the crying toddlers difficult to cope with. Should I have "spoken up" about the disturbance and distress they were causing?

wait until your precious one is 15 and let’s see if you consider them to still be a child

A&E is A&E (children or adult) what exactly are your expectations here?
Any “disturbance” would’ve been handled by the A&E staff, quite well, without your input.