Thoughts on moving from England to Florida

[Decisions2023]

Other half wants us to move from England to his home town in Florida. He has family and friends there etc and he can keep the same job. We have a 9 months of baby and the move is making me nervous. The thought of making my child American is making me nervous as it would become his home and all he knows. I'm not sure if I'm thinking rational. We are not well off and the thought of making this big decision on my childs behalf makes me anxious/nervous.

Do you think I would be putting my child at an advantage or disadvantage?

Thanks in advance.

Please ignore the last bit. I got confused between posters. I still wouldn’t take the risk though.

On the subject of moving to Florida, here’s my personal experience.

Years ago DH was offered an excellent well-paid job in Orlando so I went there and checked out housing, schools, etc. Although we could afford private schools, we decided to stay with the public schools we have here in Maine. (Orlando public schools were so awful we did not even consider them.) The loss of quality of life was going to be significant and the job just wasn’t worth the disruption.

That doesn’t mean every school district in Florida is awful. If you look on Great Schools and Niche you can see how they are all rated. IIRC St Augustine and Sarasota had excellent public schools. Also the private schools in Florida were not horrendously expensive, so they might be an option.

Housing varies wildly in price and you will generally find that housing in good school districts is more expensive.

DH works in Florida a lot and his sister lives there so we visit a lot. Most of the places we visit are very well off and comfortable but personally I still would rather not live there. I’m much more comfortable in New England but states like North Carolina are also on my list of places I’d happily live.

The risk you take with that (or charters) is that the minute your child has special needs or a learning disability, it all goes to absolute shit, because unless you have massive amounts of money and can afford specialised private school (and sometimes that's not available) you wind up back in the public system.

There's just no way I'd move to America. I used to be desperate to live there as a child but as an adult with children just no way. The risk of dying at school because of shooters, the $30,000 it costs just to give birth, let alone get ill. Plus the whole idea that they push about freedom while not even being allowed to cross the street. They can take your child away for co-sleeping. I just don't see why anyone, including Americans who have lived here, would give up free health care and no guns 🤷‍♀️

But your child IS American in that he has the right to dual citizenship and an American father who will help shape him. Your assertion that he will be disadvantaged if he is too ‘American’ assumes the superiority of being British. I can assure you that I have never felt disadvantaged by my Americanism, and in fact many facets of that cultural attitude have been advantageous in my career. I don’t always ‘get’ the British, but I think that would be different if I had a British parent and regular connections with the UK growing up.

whether you move or not, it is criminal to deny your child access to the other half of their heritage, including regular visits to see family, or just explore the other country he has citizenship to.

Sorry but nothing could persuade me to move to America. The “land of opportunity” is basically the land it getting ripped off.

In the UK you don’t have to worry about school shootings…or any kind as they are so rare.

Their insurance based health care system financially crippled people. If you had another child it will cost you in excess of 10k! That’s no joke, look it up.

the amount of crap they put into their food is scary. Tonnes of stuff that’s banned in Uk & a lot of countries

I’ve been Florida for a holiday & it’s just too bloody hot & humid all the time.

It's a difficult question because there's a language barrier here so he's not able to fully integrate into society as easily.
However, he is happier than he was in the UK, due to things like earning 3x the amount he was for the same job, more disposable income even after accounting for higher living costs and a better work-life balance.
We also have family support here that we didn't have in the UK, despite him being British, so we can easily go on dates and have child free nights.

OP, it doesn’t sound like you want to move there - that should be enough. You shouldn’t need talking into making the decision to go. Presumably your husband chose to move to the UK, chose to get involved with a British woman, marry her and have a child all whilst knowing that it meant he would need to stay here? So why now is he putting the guilt trip on you to move to his home country? If this were reversed, would he have been prepared to move to the UK for you?

How long have you two been married/together?
How strong is your marriage?
Does he pull his weight at home?
Do you work? Would you be able to work in the US?
If you moved there, split up, and he prevented you from bringing your som back to the UK, would you be happy coming home without him, or having to support yourself as a single mother in the US, unable to return home? Could you afford to support yourself?

These are the things I would be thinking about initially. If you decide you’re prepared to move, THEN I would ask whether id want to move to the US. If yes, I’d then consider which states I’d be prepared to move to.

Good luck OP. Please don’t say yes just because you think you’re marriage will be over if you say no - you will end up resenting him, and your marriage will be over anyway… and you’ll be stuck there!

I might struggle with the politics down there and the gun culture - especially with a little one

I wouldn’t advise anyone to move to Florida or away from their own country but the everything I read here on Mumsnet makes the NHS sound like an absolute nightmare. Shared wards for mothers, trans women treating and bathing elderly women, elderly people stuck on the floor at home for days after falling. There is a handwringing thread here at least daily “should I go to A&E?” with at least a few posters berating the OP for even breathing those words.

Right now there is a woman with a massive golf-ball sized lump on her eye whose GP ignored here and treated her like shit for months, wondering what she should do.

In US, rich or poor we walk into an urgent care and get treated within under an hour.
I recently had xRays on my ankle and was out within under 30 minutes at a walk-in appointment. It cost me $20. Never once have I had to think about whether my health issue was bad enough to need consume the time of a provider; healthcare isn’t a limited resource in the US.

Yes, there’s a gap of working poor people who may not have coverage. But this is not the case for most - people who qualify for government benefits also get medical coverage. People with full time jobs have it also.

I would not trade the quality and speed with which we get care in US for your “free” NHS provided healthcare. It’s not free- your taxes pay for and cost as much or more as my private, company provided insurance, but you have no control on the quality of care you receive.

The people who should be going on strike are the receivers of NHS care, not the providers.

All that being said, I really don’t think you should ever reluctantly move anywhere. Particularly with a spouse who is “adamant” to their home country and absolutely not with small children.

And the weather in Florida is miserable in the summer. Can he afford to rent a place there in addition to maintaining your current home so that you could all visit for long stretches?

@Decisions2023 you don’t say where in Florida.. It’s a big state and the differences between north and south, say, are enormous. Also, west coast/east coast. If it was, say, Miami, the experience would be very different if it was Clearwater or somewhere in the middle of the state.

I would say your main concern about your child becoming ‘too American’ would be somewhat down to your parenting. Of course your DC will be mostly influenced by their peers, but you can also instill good English values in them at home. Such as genuinely giving a shit about another human being, which is the value mostly lacking here.

I must say, Florida is my happy place. I have been here on and off for 4 years - and it has changed dramatically in that time. I would say the quality of life is better (but, again, please revert to the point about where in Florida you would move to), but it is eye wateringly expensive. items that would be £4/5 are $11/12 here.

You could, in the future do what I have done and send your DC to school in the UK and have them back for holidays……….

All the best with your decision

I do think your husband really should have thought about all this and talked about his wish to move back before having a child. this feels massively unfair to spring onto you like this though I understand his feelings too it's not fair to burden you with this guilt.

I would suggest he draw a list of what benefits he thinks your quality of life would have opposed to here. I have family in America so I do know there is some good things there too, house prices could be cheaper, cheaper living cost, higher wages for certain industries. I would be reluctant to move unless fully convinced it is best for the family

@Satansgourd

You could, in the future do what I have done and send your DC to school in the UK and have them back for holidays

Are you british and living in Florida? Who do your children live with in the UK? How old are they?
Apologies for so many questions, just trying to figure out options.

I'm not sure exactly what this post refers back to (I tried to find it without success), but generally speaking there is good support (often excellent support) for children with learning difficulties in public schools. The Americans with Disabilities Act mandates educational programs for children with disabilities and gives parents some leverage with public schools. We had our son in a specialized private school for children with learning difficulties (called learning disabilities in the US) and while it was very good, we moved him to public school because he could still get very good support for his learning, with the added measure of more opportunities for the extra-curricular activities he was interested in.

This was in Florida.

Hi again OP -

DC and to some extent even my very aBritish DH feel somewhat like citizens of the world. DH feels less British than he used to, but doesn’t mind. He enjoyed living in America.

We haven’t made up our minds, we are just thinking about it. We have some limitations because of my work; DH is more flexible. My favourite region is New England, particularly MA and CT. I also love suburban NYC and areas of the city itself I will never be able to afford. The same with LA.

I would want to way up cost of living, house, factor in cost of healthcare, university/college fees. The divide between rich and poor is bigger in America. I love Florida, love the weather! But most Brits would be worse off financially in America. And although you might not want to think about it, you need to consider if you split up, without family or a job over there, it's more difficult to work your way out of poverty in America -ironically considering they love a rags to riches story!

Sorry -- was replying to the suggestion of private or charter schools as an alternative.

I have two DC who have received special education services here (Maryland). In the SpEd groups, Florida is one of the states with a poor reputation for services. But more specifically, if you're trying to avoid the public schools it only works as long as your children fit well into the schools or you have a lot of money. Private special education is tricky as, money aside, it doesn't serve all children well.

Absolutely not! Lower taxes and higher incomes more than balance out higher out of pocket medical costs. Cost of living varies quite a bit, and just like in the UK can be really high in some places (NYC) and really low in others; as in UK inflation is an issue but inflation is lower in the US. It feel super expensive at the moment to brits because of the strong dollar / weak pound.

Housing varies quite a bit as well - in general property is cheaper and nicer than UK equivalent, but in most states you have to pay a high tax as an owner. University fees CAN be eye watering, but both of my nephews are attending excellent programs for free due to incentives at the state level (NY) despite being solidly middle income.

if it were purely an economic decision for us, relocating to the US would be a no brainier.

Yes, my son is very sporty, and excelling in his sport has always been a significant component of his self-esteem. The public schools were just a better fit as he grew older. We did move to a neighboring county, though, because they had an excellent special education program, as well as opportunities for his sport.

Are you married? I see you said you ‘might’ have some hoops to jump through - there’s not a might about it. I am married to an American and we had to apply for a non immigrant spouse visa in the first instance before a green card after a certain amount of time. The spouse visa took a year to be approved and cost us hundreds. We don’t live in the USA but visit regularly - monthly pretty much - and for us the visa process made immigration at airports much more straightforward. We haven’t ruled out living there eventually so I have given your sorts of questions a lot of thought myself - hence why I asked if you’d consider other States. Your DH being so set on it doesn’t sound like you’re making much of a joint decision though.

Here’s another thing to consider. Since covid, nothing really feels the same in the US. I’m sure it’s this way the world over. But so many businesses have closed, others have trouble getting staff, and in my opinion everything just feels a bit run down compared to a few years ago.

My friend spent a week in Jacksonville, Florida last year and was shocked at how grimy everything felt. Expensive hotel but had to move rooms because there were issues. Could smell marijuana everywhere she walked, too and even floating up to the 10th floor balcony from below. That’s just an anecdote from one city, of course. But I’ve had this experience in multiple places in the US in the past year.

I don’t think it’s a great time to relocate. Your DH might pining for a place and time that has changed drastically.

So much over the top generalising on this thread, it's hard to know where to start. As an American in the UK, I think it's almost impossible to sum up the US as one entity. I personally wouldn't live in Florida, due to the political and social issues others have mentioned, but you and your DH might not feel the same way and might embrace those views, so might feel very comfortable there. It's impossible to judge without knowing more.

Is there any possibility that you could transfer there for a year and see how it feels?

In general, I agree with @knitnerd90 and @Labraradabrador about the education systems. Mine are at one of the top London privates, loads of pressure in every direction, and I much prefer the US model which is much more whole-person based.

@Labraradabrador

that said, I prefer the US system as there is more flexibility/ more avenues for success. Bomb one exam? No problem - you have plenty of other opportunities to make it up.
I also remember having way more fun in high school pursuing topics that were of interest to us ( picking a piece of literature to analyse and spending a month going really deep, doing independent projects in history, random experiments in science that were never part of any exam). Secondary in the UK seems like one big slog towards exams.
My husband is English and educated privately before getting a 1st at Oxford -pinnacle of success in the UK, right? I am an American educated instate schools, and then on to prestigious (but not ivy) private university. My general knowledge, willingness to get stuck in, and interest in learning new things for the sake of it far exceed his.

I agree with every word of this. It completely mirrors my experience and that of my child who went back to the US for university. The UK is very specialism and exam oriented, which might suit some kids, but can also be very intellectually constraining. My child was shocked by how much better prepared the US educated kids were for in-depth research, discussion and analysis than they had been.

@knitnerd90

by the way, the NHS restricts expensive medications too; they just do it differently. It's done at a higher level that's largely invisible to the patient, rather than going to the pharmacy and then finding out. There are NHS drug budgets and guidance to doctors.

This is absolutely true. And I speak from firsthand experience as someone who has had to jump through the most incredible hoops to get a very inexpensive and widely-used medication that isn't specified under NICE guidelines.

What an utterly moronic statement.

Totally off track but shocked about the English schools doing lockdown drills. I'm a secondary teacher in Scotland and never done them and just asked my son who's in P3 and he's never practised any hiding under tables etc. Considering the last mass shooting in a school we had was just down the road in Dunblane, it's never been a thing here.