That threads starting "how do people afford....house, car, holiday, etc" are annoying

[bobbytorq]

I don't understand the purpose of the above threads. Is it because people really don't know and think there is some magic answer that eludes them? When people post about how they can afford it, they then get accused of lying or bragging. The simple answer is that people who have expensive things usually have enough money to pay for them. I'm lucky to have lots of friends whose income ranges from minimum wage up to seven figures. There is no hierachy/power/status attached to that and it's just a fact that my friend who earn more can spend more.

OK I want to be a bit more serious because I honestly want to understand that line of thinking.

For posters who asks such questions, does it ever occur to them that maybe, just maybe that those who can afford these things are on a higher income that they are? Some may have 2 incomes in the household? Hence why they can afford those things?

For example - A threads from SAHM of 3 wondering how her DHs 30K salary doesn't leave them any extra to be able to afford holidays. How on earth would it?

I always feel like the answer is simple but they're looking for some magic bullet and there isn't. Do they want to hear about the careers of people are who are on higher incomes or how they too can breakthrough in those sector to make such income as well? I doubt it.

Maybe they just want to hear something like - "Inheritance" so they can say something along the lines of "Oh I just knew it wouldn't be possible without free money".

I think it works both way though. In cases where inherited wealth or outside help plays a part, it can be healthy to acknowledge those advantages. It’s not always a case of spite or envy or wanting to belittle other’s achievements. It can be just an objective acknowledgment that we live in an unequal society.

I don't so much hate the threads as all the disingenuous replies saying "duh they earn more than you"

I think these threads illustrate the lack of financial education and transparency in this country and the massive inequality.

It is about so much more than just headline salary but even then people often have a really poor concept of what people earn for different jobs.

There is the issue of whether they have two salaries, whether they get a bonus, or comission, or overtime payments or perks such as a company car. Whether they have additional incomes, say rental from a second property or a share in a family business. Whether they have help from parents or an inheritance etc.

Then there's what they have to pay for, do they need paid childcare, do they have a mortgage or rent, when did they buy their house, do they own their car, do they have a student loan, other debts?

There are huge differences between people's wealth that have nothing to do with salary.

For example I used to work with someone who was in a low paid role but a lifestyle that didn't match. Even the fact they lived at home didn't explain it. When I got to know them it transpired that they had an income from dividends in a family business and had savings from a brief professional sports career plus parents who were prepared to fund their kids, often paying for holidays as well as helping with house purchases, education costs and so on.

I can think of people who have all kinds of things paid for by parents as adults. Horse livery, dog walkers, childcare, cars, holidays, house deposits, uni fees, business set up.

Then there's property prices, the way property has gone in recent years accounts for huge differences. Buying a house a couple of years earlier can mean a huge gain. If a couple each had a small London flat in the early 2000s and subsequently sold them to buy a house up north they will be able to afford much more than a couple on the same income where one or both rented or lived with their parents during the same years.

Inheritance makes a huge difference too. An inheritance of over £100k is not that uncommon when you think about the price of a fairly bog standard house these days.

Education on financial matters is a huge issue too. People who grew up being taught debt is wrong so they won't use any form of debt to spread payments. People who will have savings sitting in low interest bank accounts because they need easy access and can't tolerate any risk. Others will be willing to lock money up to access better rates as they have access to credit or alternative funds if necessary. The wealthier will be willing to take risks and will get the benefit of investing in stocks and shares increasing their wealth further.

So many factors beyond salary.

I'd say its testament to how educationally-divided Britain is becoming.

Thanks to expanding contempt for schools, teachers, qualifications, life and social skills which is fostered and fed on and by social media.

The thing is that it is not often objective acknowledgement, it's often simply made up fact.
On every thread about anything noce you will have posters simply declaring that it must be inheritance/tax evasion/selling firstborn whatever, just never anything like "saved up for it by not buying something else".

It is a big thing on here

I do think theres something in this - for example, some people I know prioritise nice cars and fancy holidays but aren’t that bothered about their house. We drive shitty old cars but have a house that we spent a lot on because we love being at home and having people over. My husband can’t stand snooty people so holiday wise we can’t go mega high end like some of my friends do as he’d hate it.

I think a lot of it is about priorities

But it's not always as simple as someone having more money. It can be about appetite to risk too.

I earn very decent money and might think to myself "I know she makes half my salary, so why does she have SUCH a nice car?"

The answer is that I'm risk averse so bought my crap little car outright for £3k, and she's much more tolerant of risk and can commit £450 a month to a lease deal and still sleep at night.

See I think this is the naive comment.

It's nothing to do with intelligence - why would it be? If something it outside your sphere of experience, if you don't know anybody who inherited money, whose parents paid for expensive things, if you assume everyone has debts (from student times or from emergencies when on a lower income), pays full childcare, has no emergency cushion. If you have a different idea of what a "good salary" is.

How could you know these things? It's not to do with intelligence, it's life experience. Money is a taboo subject meaning typically you will only know how yourself, your partner, siblings and parents make and spend their money, anybody outside of this you can only guess.

👏👏👏👏 Great post.

Maybe - but also, 30k is a lot of money to some people, so it can be a bit like but we've made it now, so how come we aren't rolling in it??

I don't think DH was earning 30k at the time I was feeling like this (and we only had one child then) - but I knew that the whole well they are on two salaries - that would have immediately made me go oh OK, unreachable then - because I had this very cemented belief that my own earning power was very low and fixed, and childcare would wipe it out so what was the point. It didn't really occur to me that childcare costs reduce as children age and earning power can increase as experience increases. And there was no way we could have paid for childcare without me earning, so that I could study and get some kind of qualification.

A lot of the time people look at the options they know exist now and think about that rather than thinking wider or longer term.

I'm just saying if you robbed a bank then great - that obviously took some ingenuity and willpower, but not everyone can do that. Some may be worried about getting caught, missing out on their kids growing up, etc, or just not have the wherewithal.

*The thing is that it is not often objective acknowledgement, it's often simply made up fact.

On every thread about anything noce you will have posters simply declaring that it must be inheritance/tax evasion/selling firstborn whatever, just never anything like "saved up for it by not buying something else".

It is a big thing on here*

Then it should be pointed our that it might be, or it might not. It’s no MORE helpful to perpetuate the idea that everyone who has nice things 100% earned it with the sweat of their brow, while everyone who doesn’t is a thick lazy pleb (and both started on a level playing field), which is also a big thing on here.

i think there’s a proportion of people who don’t want to believe that other people aren’t struggling and are better off than them. They’re looking for the answer to be either inheritance (‘free money’ they didn’t work for), or living beyond their means.

you see a similar mindset in the threads about jealousy. Instead of addressing the issue - the jealousy itself - people suggest that the object of the jealousy is secretly miserable even if wealthy, or secretly miserable and faking it. As if wishfully thinking that someone else is miserable is a good thing and something to take comfort in.

Is it though? The British benefits system is incredibly generous.

A family of four with one person earning minimum wage can end up on the equivalent of £55k on PAYE.

The media peddle the image of people being brought into the dirt, but the reality send to be very different.

It is single people on low incomes that get no help, but it is always families that are used to pull at the heart strings.

And that's the issue I think in that people don't look beyond their limited experience. Someone on 30k might well wonder how someone can afford to drive around in a 200k Range Rover and have no comprehension that the owner may be earning 300k or have inherited 500k as it's so outside of their experience. The utility of threads like these to me is to open people's filters to things outside of their experience but that then leads to the accusations of bragging, etc.

I sometimes feel the OPs want reassurance that most people who have better things/lifestyles than them have huge amounts of debt.

Whilst that might be true for some, there is a reluctance to accept that others have more money than you, even if you know, or think you know their salary. It’s a small part of some people’s financial situation.

Its not unforgivable to be nosy, but the outright jealousy and spite that accompanies some posts on such subjects is really unpleasant.

Personally I think it’s a reaction to all of the ‘heat or eat’ messages the media keep feeding us. It’s every day so you assume 90% of people are starving.
It also seeps into your brain unconsciously. Eg a friend was telling me about a holiday she has just booked and I was feeling a bit envious and thinking how can she afford that. However she is in a similar position to me and yes I could afford to go if I wanted. It’s just the whole ‘you are going to starve’ mentality is engraved in my brain I daren’t spend any money.

I think it's two things.

1. The average uk full time salary is £33k. Therefore millions and millions of people are less than that.

Only one per cent of the uk population earn more than £150k. Therefore objectively there are very few really high earners.

And yet there are thousands upon thousands of holidays advertised in the school holidays for more then £10k a week for an average family of four. So not that odd to wonder who is affording all those holidays.

1. Most of the public sector has had a 20 per cent pay cut in real terms over the last decade. So people who were doing absolutely fine are now wondering why they are struggling. But because it's been a gradual erosion of pay over time it's not as obvious

I genuinely think some people just don’t realise how well certain sectors pay. They
know that people doing those jobs earn well, but don’t realise HOW well. There are whole sectors where people bring home 5 figures/month net as standard.

"It’s going to be one of two things. Either the people who are affording the holidays, cars, mansions, takeaways or whatever earn enough money to afford it, or they’re sticking it all on credit."

Third option - inheritance. I think this has been a great driver of inequality in the last few years. The generation who are dying off now contains a lot of home-owners, who may have bought their house for relatively little. If they die without spending it on care, their heirs might get a lot of money. Imagine someone leaving a single child a house worth 750k - even after taxes, how long would it take most people to earn that kind of money?

Imagine someone leaving a single child a house worth 750k - even after taxes, how long would it take most people to earn that kind of money?

It's a lot of money - but an awful lot of couples in their 30s and 40s have paid £500k plus (outside London) for their own detached homes, so once that plus tax is paid off, won't be left with that much cash to splash on 2 new cars, school fees, skiing holidays and so on. Not long-term, anyway. Obviously their wages will go further without a mortgage payment.

The richest people I know lost their parents in their 60s as they had already paid off their homes so it was all disposable income.

I agree with this, and with CountessofFitzdotterel

For a lot of people, the sums involved are so far beyond their experience it's hard to conceive how it could be affordable to others. It's the scale of the inequality.

The standard Mumsnetter narrative of UK bad, EU a Utopia...........

Money received earlier in life is actually worth far more than money received later in life. It's just that the real benefit is less immediately noticeable.

It saves you a shed load of interest on the mortgage that you would otherwise have paid from your income. What you would have paid in interest and mortgage payments can now go into a pension or ISA, attracting tax relief (minimum of 20% for a pension), compound interest/growth over the years etc.

And you make people what the hell you are spending your large incomes on if y9ou can't afford a car.
People are always posting on here about how they earn 150k but haven't been on holiday in five years, and I always wonder what you are wasting it all on. We earn half that, live in an expensive place, and have a family holiday and a couple of weekends away at least, every year.