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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To buy DS a dress

89 replies

tjg0 · 03/02/2023 00:58

I'm a dad to 3 boys, their mum passed away 5 years ago so I'm bringing them up alone. The youngest is 13, he's always been different to the other boys, more quiet and sensitive, not really interested in the same things as them which I've always been fine with and have encouraged his interests.

Middle son (15) and youngest share a room which I know isn't ideal, this evening I told them to tidy their room which they (finally) did. Whilst tidying middle son found a dress which youngest admitted is his, middle laughed at him and called him names, said he'd tell people at their school etc which I did talk to him about. Youngest then threw the dress in the bin. He said he didn't want to talk about it but later came downstairs and said he does but not yet as he doesn't want his brothers listening so we agreed to talk at the weekend. I told him I'm not angry as he thought I would be, but I am shocked as it is unexpected.

I was thinking of buying him another dress and surprising him with it to show him I'm not angry etc but I'm not sure in case his brothers find out which he is worried about - I personally don't think eldest would care but middle has already shown he does.

WIBU?

OP posts:
Megifer · 03/02/2023 10:41

DarkShade · 03/02/2023 10:36

@megifer Sadly when my sister went through a tomboy phase of wearing boy's clothes, hanging out with boys and playing contact sports, adults at our school remarked (in earshot of me) that it was a fetish or signs of her being "into the ladies". My sister was 8 years old. I didn't understand what they meant until much later, but knew even then I understood that they were deranged and that wearing normal clothes, even ones typically worn by the opposite sex, does not make a child a fetishist.

Aware of that, which is why I said "at this stage" and "if its that"

MintyFreshOne · 03/02/2023 10:41

DarkShade · 03/02/2023 10:36

@megifer Sadly when my sister went through a tomboy phase of wearing boy's clothes, hanging out with boys and playing contact sports, adults at our school remarked (in earshot of me) that it was a fetish or signs of her being "into the ladies". My sister was 8 years old. I didn't understand what they meant until much later, but knew even then I understood that they were deranged and that wearing normal clothes, even ones typically worn by the opposite sex, does not make a child a fetishist.

A little girl is very different from a teen boy. It could very well be a sexual fetish depending on what he’s viewing online and such.

However this one may very well be linked to losing his mother at such a young age, he may not have any adult women in his life at all!

It really depends on a lot of factors, tbh. Outside of a keen interest in fashion, that is 😂

Joystir59 · 03/02/2023 10:42

Let him choose his own dress

InspectorPaws · 03/02/2023 10:43

Take him shopping and allow him to choose any clothes that he likes - dress or not.

GoodChat · 03/02/2023 10:43

I think you need to see where his heads at before you decide on the dress.

I would retrieve the one he threw away.

FuckabethFuckor · 03/02/2023 10:43

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different perspective here and suggest that you put some thought/time into your older son's attitude.

At one level, it almost doesn't matter why your youngest likes to wear dresses (or that dress in particular). The fact is, he does. He (and you) will work out the whys and the wherefores of this over the next few years and you can parent as necessary.

But your older son is targeting him and bullying him about this. (Not to mention throwing away his property.) This would be what I'd deal with. It isn't right and it isn't fair. Your youngest doesn't need a ready-made bully under his own roof.

Hankunamatata · 03/02/2023 10:45

Can you retrieve the dress that was binned and clean it? It may have special value.

Megifer · 03/02/2023 10:45

I would want to try and find out how he got the dress, as that might help reveal whats going on

Hankunamatata · 03/02/2023 10:46

More importantly time to educate your 15 year old.

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 03/02/2023 10:48

I think having a good talk with both boys separately is the way forward. Speak with the youngest first to understand where he is/what is going on with him.
Then speak to your middle son. They are close in age. His reaction may well be based on real concern for his brother and indeed himself. Teens are chronically embarrassed and worried about anything that marks them out as different. Which includes a cross dressing brother!

ShimmeringShirts · 03/02/2023 10:49

Is there no MH support he can access before he goes down the route of wearing dresses? And I don’t mean that unkindly at all, lots of teenagers are exploring different identities atm and lots of them “wear” those identities for a few months before realising they’re not that person and wanting to revert back. It’s a lot harder to revert back when everyone is applauding you for how brave you are though.

DD and the majority of DDs high school year group all identified as lesbians/pansexual/trans etc. The school applauded them, everyone was accepting and understanding, it was a great show of inclusivity until the majority of them came out and said “yeah, I don’t actually like girls, I’m straight after all”. They’re all now in second year and the majority of them have had to climb back down and let everyone know they’re not actually what they claimed to be which was mentally tough for them. Teen years is where you try out many different identities to see which one fits, it used to be “harmless” (it was goth/emo and the like when we were at school!), because teenage years are for trying on whatever identity you want. Just make sure he can revert back to who he is without it being a massive deal if/when he realises that specific identity isn’t for him.

Vegetablesupreme · 03/02/2023 10:49

I wouldn't necessarily assume he'd want another one. You don't yet know for sure why he had the dress in the first place. I would wait until the weekend when he's ready to explain.

Listen without interrupting and show you understand (which I'm sure you'd do anyway). If the reason is that he would like to wear a dress/skirt/whatever, then suggest you go together to buy one. Show your full support, but go at his pace.
I echo what others have said though, you truly do sound like a lovely, caring dad. Good luck to you and your ds OP x

Tabitha888 · 03/02/2023 10:49

Omg you are the best dad ever and you made me cry xxxx

ShimmeringShirts · 03/02/2023 10:50

I’d also absolutely stomp out your middle DS attitude towards boys that do have an interest in cross dressing or identify as transgender. What a hateful, nasty attitude to have, especially to his own brother.

Vegetablesupreme · 03/02/2023 10:51

ShimmeringShirts · 03/02/2023 10:50

I’d also absolutely stomp out your middle DS attitude towards boys that do have an interest in cross dressing or identify as transgender. What a hateful, nasty attitude to have, especially to his own brother.

This as well. A very good point.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/02/2023 10:57

WineIsMyMainVice · 03/02/2023 01:11

You sound like a great dad.

I think at this stage buying one might make it more of ‘a thing’ than you intend.

take some time to listen to your son and find out what he wants. That way things will be more on his terms….

I concur.

And would add it'd worth a chat with your middle to remind him we should all be free to express feminine and masculine sides of ourself without judgement or shame from others and his cruel response isn't cool.

I don't want to assume there is any gender dysphoria here/trans stuff happening however be mindful if there is it's important he remembers he absolutely can present and express as he feels but he is and always will be male.

And yes, you sound like you are doing a grand job Smile

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/02/2023 10:59

Agapornis · 03/02/2023 01:55

I hope you'll give your middle son appropriate punishment for his bullying. Were his remarks sexist and homophobic by any chance? Stamp it out.

Shop with your youngest - perhaps online so he doesn't have to feel weird about (very likely) shopping in the women's department. Harry Styles and Billy Porter aren't the worst role models.

Where does homophobia come into it?

MintyFreshOne · 03/02/2023 11:02

ShandaLear · 03/02/2023 10:39

Harry Styles and David Bowie are both famous dress wearers and it hasn’t done them any harm. A dress is just clothes. By all means buy him one - H&M is great for dresses - a wide variety and a great website. If you want to shop online.

I know that people desperately want to believe that ‘clothes are clothes’ but this is simply not the case.

We have female-coded clothing and male-coded clothing. Often they are that way simply due to tradition, and things that used to be ‘male-coded’ are now female, etc. Sometimes there is a practicality element too.

But meaning is embedded into clothing and dressing in clothes coded for the opposite sex signals things to others within your own culture.

You can try to get rid of it, but you can’t pretend it isn’t there.

Now in terms of Western clothing, a skirt would probably work best for men as you can wear them with appropriately tailored men’s tops.

A dress, however, will almost always look ill-fitting on a male body and frankly make him look ridiculous

Cherry60 · 03/02/2023 11:12

No, I wouldn't buy him another dress it's putting too much emphasis on the whole thing which could cause humiliation and possibly more bullying from siblings.

Original poster
tjg0 · 03/02/2023 11:15

Thanks all

Last night, he did say that his friend gave him the dress so he isn't being bullied into wearing it as he is good friends with the girl. I have spoken to middle son. DS isn't feminine, he's just more sensitive and doesn't like the older boys' interests ie. Football and wrestling etc. He's interested in acting and drawing which are for both males and females. I do monitor his phone and he's not looking at anything concerning or talking to anyone new.

OP posts:
BaroldNedmunds · 03/02/2023 11:16

No, don’t buy him a dress. You’re assuming he wants another one before even speaking to him! Wait until you’ve had your chat at the weekend. Don’t pigeonhole him, he could have the dress for any number of reasons.

ShimmeringShirts · 03/02/2023 11:22

@tjg0 does your DS school have in house counsellors? They were a major help for my DD in figuring out who she is. It’s a really bloody weird time to be a teenager, the counsellor gave her the confidence to accept and love who she is. She’s daft as a box of hatters now but she is thriving and happier than she’s ever been before. It might be that your youngest DS just needs someone to listen and give him the tools to navigate through the next few years. You sound like you’re doing a great job though.

Nagado · 03/02/2023 11:34

I think he’s probably just exploring who he is and where he fits in with everyone else. My priority would be making sure he understands that if he feels he might not be heterosexual, that doesn’t mean he’s been born into the wrong body and that it’s perfectly fine to be whatever sexuality he feels comfortable with, and he doesn’t have to be all rough and tumble in order to be a boy. Maybe have an age appropriate discussion about gender stereotypes and what a load of old rubbish they are.

The most important thing is that he knows you love him unconditionally (which it sounds like he does) and that he can always talk to you.

JazbayGrapes · 03/02/2023 11:42

Is your DS watching a lot of porn?

Trez1510 · 03/02/2023 11:45

MintyFreshOne · 03/02/2023 07:06

What specifically do you find objectionable about this advice?

Show quote history

All of it.

Which elements of it do you find rational, practical and supportive?