... to be (slightly) freaking out about my woodburner?

[HappyAlley]

The Guardian is going really big on this (although we all know they have a track record of ignoring other vital concerns) & other news outlets have been reporting on this for a while. It does seem obvious that burning fuel inside a house is, in fact, very bad for you. I have a four-year-old & we've had a woodburner for 5 years, since we bought this (draughty, Victorian) house. Used a fair bit to cut down on energy bills. Two - four times a week in coldest winter; sometimes all day on weekends etc. I try not to open it loads but DP won't bloody listen; he's got that man-disease of constantly tending/fiddling with the fire for no fucking purpose whatsoever.

Mine do too, it stinks

Just get an air purifier. We have one that senses when the air quality dips..if DH stirs up the fire a bit when he opens it (because he also can't leave it alone!) Then it kicks in and filters until the air quality is better which takes max. 15 mins. It never turns on if the door is closed.

Carbon monoxide is way worse for you than using these and many people have gas in their homes.

I do find it funny that since people have been more careful of their energy use and using less - the media now keeps pushing the narrative of how bad these are and how we must go back to using electricity or gas.

Breathing anything in is dangerous for you which is why bakers using flour can have health issues but for a lot of people (especially elderly or disabled) they will need the heat and cant be choosy about where it comes from.

the media now keeps pushing the narrative of how bad these are and how we must go back to using electricity or gas.

Yep makes me wonder who’s lying for the surveys? 🤷‍♀️

DS has asthma and his room is at the top of the house. Since neighbours installed their burner (NB we live in Central London - this is lifestyle/hygge pure and simple) we have had to double his inhaler dose.

Burners aren’t great inside - how good/bad depends on many things. They are really vile for outdoor air quality in urban areas (and indoors, when that air comes back inside) and it makes me so angry that a desire for cosy living room trumps a child’s right to health.

NB on particles - there is a problem w how they are understood, as not all particles are created equal. An asbestos particle, for eg, is way more damaging than a similar sized particle given off by frying. Diesel and brake particles are about the worst being regularly emitted now. Wood is next. Fried food, even tho it makes particle monitors go mad, isn’t anywhere near as harmful - the particles don’t damage your lungs. Gas hobs are bad - but that’s NO2 not particulates.

So how are we supposed to heat our homes?

Gas is bad, electricity is unaffordable and we can't keep our open fire as coal is now not allowed.

What exactly are we supposed to do if, even the modern stoves which comply to the new regulations from last year, are as hideous as some posters claim?

I've read the original research and while I don't deny that there can be a problem, there are numerous ways of reducing the risk.

Have a modern clean-burning, DEFRA approved stove. Burn only seasoned and ideally kiln-dried wood (use Woodsure to find a reputable local supplier). Keep the stove door closed as much as you can. When opening it, open it very slightly for a few moments to draw any particles up the flue (throwing it wide open immediately isn't a great idea). If you're worried, get a HEPA-approved air filter for the room. If you can, ventilate the room during and after use. To put your mind at rest, get a PM2.5 monitor.

PM2.5 (and PM10s + VOCs) are dramatically worse as a result of cooking, especially frying, toasting and anything that burns the food, even slightly, and joss sticks are about the worse thing you can burn in your house from an emissions point of view. So, when fry cooking, roasting, burning any food, toast, joss sticks, bonfires, open fires, chimeneas, campfires and fire pits are all outlawed, then i'm happy to talk about wood stoves [when properly used, that is, see above].

The two following videos on indoor PM2.5 emissions are interesting, if you're worried and would like reassurance:

and especially from 20:00 onwards

So how are we supposed to heat our homes?

Gas is bad, electricity is unaffordable and we can't keep our open fire as coal is now not allowed.

Exactly.

It’s just further punishing those on a low income who can’t afford the electricity to heat their homes.

Open fires or log burners aren’t perfect but neither are the other options.

Nor did anyone up until relatively recently, historically speaking.

Most of the oldies pushing who have pushed the current life expectancy envelope were brought up and lived through an age of open fires, coal fired power stations and gas works.

Oh for an edit facility. Even a few seconds would be good.

And two clean air acts.

Fit a carbon monoxide alarm to warn of poor atmosphere.
As for particulates in the air is concerned I think there is more effect from vehicle pollution, especially if you live in a town or city.

@GoldilockMom Sponsored by Shell maybe?! Got to protect those profits!

Sorry but how are you surprised? Of course burning something inside will have risks. I would never use one around children or babies.

Interesting responses. Definitely getting an air purifier (& a new oven!)

agree that much like many other things (household recycling versus the climate emergency for instance) it’s pushing responsibility for a huge & unwieldy issue back to the individual, when in fact corporations & governments who bear most of the responsibility for the problems are getting away with actual murder.

Thanks @Shadowboy

I’m not surprised. I said it seems obvious in my OP.

Had a new one installed when we bought the house to replace the old, faulty shit one that set the carbon monoxide alarm off for reasons already explained. Pre-children.

Have had it on more this winter as cost of living crisis is biting & it’s been colder.

Thank you! I was going to say this. If you made it through childhood, you had a good chance of making it to old age. I found this really interesting when I found out as I had believed that the average person could expect to live to 50 (as one would normally assume)

you must have a carbon monoxide meter if u have a woodburner.Friends were recently treated when the both fell ill and the alarm on the co2 meter was going off
we live where there is no gas and electric has traditionally been so expensive-lots have wood burner. We have electric only -we had storage heaters but since they stopped the night time electric rate we are now looking at a wood burner as well.our last 2 bills were £755 for dec and £550 for Jan and that was just having two rads on 19c

we have one, it keeps us warm in a rural setting and draughty house.

whilst I appreciate the research, if I pick my nose after a day at home it is normal nose picking colour 🤣 if I pick it after a day in London or other city it’s black.

so I pick warmth on a draughty house and avoid city centres. It might not be totally scientific but it’s is very visible.

disclaimer - I don’t go round endlessly picking my nose on a regular basis 🤢😱

Yes and test it regularly and make sure it's installed in the correct location.

I have asthma. Its worse if we use the wood burner.

We got an air purifer and found if we run it with the room door closed, and dh gets the fire started and I stay out of the room for 20 minutes, that helps a lot. The air purifier has an app that says how bad the pm2.5 particles are - might help your dh to see what effect constantly opening the burner has!

A mouldy damp house would be worse for my breathing though.

I’m really looking forward to wood burners being banned and 20 mph speed limits on all urban roads, because then I’ll live forever.

Yeah too right... One day on the tube in london and the inside of my nose is black!

Where we live there is no mains gas so most people have woodburning stoves. If its good wood, a good stove and a good draw on the chimney there is barely and smoke, and barely any dust.

Heat your house however the fuck you want. Most of the world is cooking over fires as we type, the are huge horrendous industrial fires, rubbish dumps are being burnt, and airplanes burn fuel, whilst ship burn the lowest quality fuel possible...

Don't sit at home worrying about the impact of your fire, enjoy the small pleasures in life.

Ps I have three children under 5 and 2 fires. My 5 year old boy is adept at building and making a fire, and they stare at that and not a TV at night. X

Woodburning stoves tend to be the preserve of the middle classes... Imagine the speed with which the resulting poor air quality (certainly in my village...) would be addressed with blanket bans on using them if they were just used by poor people... Surely these stoves need proper regulation, for the health of everyone.