Supporting nhs consultant doctors industrial action

[Lapland123]

I hope this has public support. Consultants have seen the largest pay erosion in public services- now 35 % pay erosion since 2010.

Add the pension debacle, where we are asked for real money now for a theoretical glitch in how pensions are calculated. The ‘real money ‘ bill now can be 6+ months of your take home pay annually. Yes, really.

Vacancies exist in multiple specialties and the day to day job is more and more difficult in the context of vacancies throughout the nhs

I hope we have support for industrial action due to this government’s disgraceful erosion of our pay though we are working harder than ever

THIS

*The harsh reality is that as a nation, we can't afford to be paying anyone any more money at all. Currently we are £27.4bn pounds in debt - overdrawn if you like. That's the highest debt figure since records began in 1993.

As a nation, the private sector (the profit sector if you will) does not generate enough income, or profit, to fund the public sector (the cost centre). If the UK were a Plc, we'd be bankrupt, as our spending is greater than our income.

I'd fully support the UK becoming a bit more more overdrawn to fund reasonable pay rises for lower paid workers, but becoming more overdrawn to pay people on £100k a 35% pay rise? That needs to wait until our bank account looks a bit healthier*

l think debts have been much higher than this.

Records began before 1993, here’s the info from Office of BudgetResponsibilty.

obr.uk/box/post-world-war-ii-debt-reduction/

Agreed.

I'm a former nurse and do not support them.

The government could sort out the pensions debacle, as pp have said, they did for judges. I doubt it would cost that much, in the context of the tax take? As pp have said, the same rate of income tax and NI added together, could be applied to all income, including investments, high private pensions, etc; and capital gains. Change the law, so only UK residents or wholly British owned companies could buy property here, and charge an annual charge like the French do, on all existing overseas owned properties.

Then consultants might accept say a 10% pay rise - 35% is just an opening position?

I support them seeking a pay rise, the NHS cannot function without them. They are the only people, we have come across in the NHS, education and social services, who have carried out independently, their duty of care to DD; without thinking about a real agenda of saving money in the short term first and foremost, regardless of the long term costs.

The comparisons should not be with low paid workers, but people at a similar level in the professions. Why else, do all those years of study, training, long hours and exams?

Retired nurse

so you paid no tuition fees
you got free hospital accommodation
you were able to buy a house because house prices compared to salaries were orders of magnitude much more affordable

but yes, do go ahead and dump on your colleagues, who are facing working in an NHS which is completely different to the one you experienced. That's always appreciated.

You make yourself look like a complete idiot when you make a load of inaccurate assumptions based on nothing but your own ignorance.

Please do correct me then......

Learn to read and you should realise your mistake.

😂😂

Monitor1, I have learned from starting this thread that there will be a minority who can’t or won’t see the facts. We are best leaving them to it. If ‘former nurse’ is a retiree , all your points are completely essential but he/ she is for some reason incapable of taking them onboard.

if he /she had to leave nursing/ was struck off and that’s why they are a ‘former nurse’, enough said.

ultimately though I started this wondering about public support, I think now we must just do the correct thing and vote for industrial action before there are almost no consultants left working in the NHS. With or without public or media support.

I'm glad the penny has dropped lol.

No harm done. I misread sometimes too.

it's irrelevant whether retired or left the NHS. you aren't working in it and if you don't support your former colleagues then you clearly don't understand the issue. Which is particularly sad to see in someone who is supposed to be intelligent enough to be a nurse.

I'm not retired and its absolutely bizarre to suggest that someone saying they used to be a nurse means they were struck off.

People can change careers you know.

Whatever.

lacking capacity to understand valid and clearly explained points which are resulting in exodus of consultants remaining employed by NHS.

if you can’t grasp that this is a problem, it’s a good thing you have changed career. No one in your family will need a doctor at any point either, I’m sure. Otherwise you wouldn’t say such foolish things.

Its not irrelevant as you made a load of incorrect assumptions about me because you misread so its a bit ironic to have a dig at my intelligence simply because I don't share your view.

None of my extended family ( all NHS through generations) support it. Lots of nurses here don't. Sympathise certainly but do not support industrial action due to the affect on patients.

But not worried about the effects on patients by rapid exodus of consultants due to these issues?

that doesn’t bother you, does it?

hilariously lacking in capacity to understand. Or read.

Lacking in capacity? I'm not the one who said a former nurse must have been struck off 😂

Yes lacking in capacity.
Can’t understand the issues clearly explained.
Can’t weigh up the risks to patients by not having consultants staying working in the health service

= lacking capacity

I think we should give up Lapland123. Some people just don't have the intellectual capability to understand the issues.....

I support them, despite the (very valid) points made against the strikers. I do think that the NHS needs major reform, but above all major Government investment. This can only be done by raising taxes or by borrowing from somewhere else.

Tbh, the way our society is structured needs wholesale reform, root and branch.

I also think that as a population, our social conscience has all but disappeared.

I agree, Monitor1.

Well we know what way we’ll vote when we are finally balloted for industrial action. It’s been a long time coming!!

Agreed, and even worse than chess with pigeons, there are people here who think we're their slaves with no right to choose where we work, but have no solutions for the issues apart from our sucking it up. This thread has persuaded me to vote to strike, and also a strong reminder that the objectors here don't get to vote and are obviously no different from thieves who will without any conscience steal your time and life for a song, and project their own values onto you.

I’m very glad this thread has helped solidify views and a decision to vote for industrial action. In many ways I’ve wondered these last few years why this wasn’t raised. I wondered what pay erosion would we continue with-50%? 75%?!

Would some continue to work for nhs when they are getting such a tax bill, which means their take home pay after that is less than halved? Only those with some random other source of income, not from their job, would stay in such a scenario.

looking forward to progressing this as soon as possible and striking.

I’d like to express for the record that I meant that as and then people say Labour can’t be trusted with the economy…

@monitor1 started a thread once about working conditions of GPs and the resulting impact on staffing levels and the amount of wild ignorance dished out on that thread by PP was tragicomic