Supporting nhs consultant doctors industrial action

[Lapland123]

I hope this has public support. Consultants have seen the largest pay erosion in public services- now 35 % pay erosion since 2010.

Add the pension debacle, where we are asked for real money now for a theoretical glitch in how pensions are calculated. The ‘real money ‘ bill now can be 6+ months of your take home pay annually. Yes, really.

Vacancies exist in multiple specialties and the day to day job is more and more difficult in the context of vacancies throughout the nhs

I hope we have support for industrial action due to this government’s disgraceful erosion of our pay though we are working harder than ever

can you get off your high horse already?

1. there are other qualifications that take long training
2. people work in other stressful jobs,

you just assume this person doesn’t work hard or somehow sits on arse all the time. Lol, goes to show how entitled YOU are.

Why do you have a problem if someone with a successful business earns more than you? (Shop)?

Life is unfair. I know one eBay business makes more money than I make as a director level employee at a Bank. So? Should I be kicking up a fuss and striking because that person left high school without any GCSEs and I have a double masters? Wtf ?

£100k is not low. It’s a great salary.

There are countries that pay doctors less. Doctors in those countries work in much more stressful environments. Would you take a pay cut to match them?

People go to doctors because treating patients is your job! You are now asking people not to go to a dr to get checked? Wtf !

Some people go to GPs for something they thought was serious, but turned out to be a minor issue. You know it’s a minor problem because you are trained. You are being paid (fairly) to make that judgement. Just like a mechanic fixes something in 2 mins and your car starts. So ? That somehow makes you superior? Lol .

There are countries that pay doctors less. Doctors in those countries work in much more stressful environments. Would you take a pay cut to match them?

Which countries, out of interest? And do they also, like the NHS, have little to no scope for supplementary private work?

This one is taking a nasty turn! Overly focused on wages here! And, hold on.. now is the patient fault somehow... what a surprise!
To get out of the cost of living crisis hole we find ourselves in, we need to develop a sense of community and caring for the whole of the UK population. We need to demand equity. Not unreasonable figures that will magically sort all issues for me, but crash the system. Fairness for all, equity for all.

A few hear with fixed incorrect ideas, bees in bonnets and chips on shoulders.

Consultants are not worth 35% less than they were 12 years ago.

Enough nonsense about gold plated pensions when the actual details of that have been explained repeatedly and clearly to you. The great pension theft has many consultants needing to reduce hours, leave nhs and move across to private. Because they CANNOT AFFORD A YEARLY TAX BILL OF 6 MONTHS NET PAY

If that doesn’t get it into your head, nothing ever will. You will only feel this when you need medical care and the consultants have left the building.

So what is reasonable? I would say that keeping up with inflation as a bare minimum is reasonable. And as we've had 10 years of austerity and sub-inflationary pay rises everywhere in the public sector, a big hike is needed to do that.

@Jazz12 did you miss the bit about the figures tax bill?

bet when it’s not someone in the nhs you don’t give a tosh about what they earn while still complaining the waiting lists for treatment are 18 months long

it’s what the tories wanted.

5 figures*

God the ignorance

Some people just don’t want to know. But when it’s their knee replacement, their 15h wait in a&e, their child waiting years for a SEN/ND assessment, their 3 week wait for a GP appointment or 18 months wait for secondary care, they’re outraged. Meanwhile, some people in finance or tech raking it in and no one seems to think that society is not rewarding properly those who keep us alive.
no interest in connecting the dots. Will watch the Kardashians instead of thinking for 5 minutes

Yes, keeping up with inflation is very reasonable indeed.
This year and last we have exceptional circumstances. To be honest, I think we would have to ask an economist how much the UK can afford to pay (to all of us) and go from there. I cannot give you a figure, because economy is not my speciality. If I have to guess, I bet we can stretch to 5% for medium to high pay range and 8% or so for lower wages (I support higher increase on the lower wages due to the hike in price o basic goods). We could all get double the pay tomorrow, but by doing so the price of everything goes up 3 times. We need experts in economy to figure the reasonable numbers. Now, the government is meant to do this, but this one is busy trying to figure out who is to seat on the PM seat next.
I think companies should be severely reducing their margins during this, as to keep a hold on prices. There is no point on business struggling to pay the fuel bill when BP is making record profits, in my opinion.
The issue with pensions and the associated tax does not sound fair to me at all, for example.
I think the NHS structure needs addressing. The recuiting, work load, work conditions, paperwork and so on.

But I do not think the patients are the issue, at all.

God the morally deficient disregard for human lives

Nope, the change from SpR payscale (only base salary pensionable) to consultant payscale (entire salary pensionable) will do that too. And don’t forget the pension projection is based on your FT final salary, even if you are PT.

I went from full time ST9 (salary about £65k) to part time consultant (salary £53k) and got a £160k tax bill. Because my projected pension pot had doubled (from £120k to about £200k, nowhere near £1m). Thankfully that was in 2019-20, and there was a covid mitigation scheme in place, or we would literally have lost our house.

I know several other colleagues stung by this in their first consultant year.

Sorry, my actual pension pot had doubled from £120k to £200k, and so my projected pension was something ridiculous on the assumption my pension would continue to double each year. Which obviously it hasn’t.

I’m astounded such a comment could be made about people who devote everything to saving lives. This image of consultancy’s fucking off to the golf course at 3pm is rubbish - they work horrendous hours in impossibly stressful conditions, going way above and beyond what they are contractually obliged to do, because they want to keep patients safe in a deficient system. Agree with the strikes or don’t, but to accuse them of “morally deficient disregard for human lives” is abhorrent.

Just own it OP. What you want and think you deserve, is for the 90% of the working population who earn less than you, to receive even less in their pay packets each month, so you can have more in yours. Shameful.

There is nothing stopping you from training as a doctor, and in 20 years’ time becoming a consultant yourself, if you think the pay and conditions are amazing.

The actual people doing it currently don’t think the pay or conditions are amazing, and are leaving. So we need to improve one or the other to retain staff.

You can’t claim that they “devote everything to saving lives” when they’re literally letting people die so they can protest about their £100k+ salary being too low.

It’s the action of striking for money in the full knowledge that people will die because of your strike that is morally deficient.

Theres no image of consultants playing golf, we all know that they work hard in a stressful job as do many other professions. It’s just that other professions don’t have convenient hostages whose lives they can sacrifice for more pay.

Tory HQ klaxon has clearly gone off. Back to stoking politics of envy to persuade the gullible to vote against their interests, which they will in 2024. Thank fuck I have dual citizenship and can quit this place when the shit really hits the fan. Let the Tory bots and fans sit in A&E waiting room for 2 days with their head half hanging off.

They’ll soon be singing ‘Feed the world (‘do they know it’s 2023?)’ in Ethiopia to raise money for the UK.

Frankly, I’d rather reassign a consultant to work as a binman for a month on binman wages, then they’d realise how great their pay and conditions actually are and be begging to come back. The expectation that pay and conditions must be “amazing” is entitlement.

Lots of employees don’t get paid enough for the hours, responsibility and stress. Teachers, carers and social workers come to mind. And they’re paid a hell of a lot less than consultants. But they still do their jobs because they care about people. They aren’t whinging “I’m not doing it because you can’t afford to pay me”. Teachers especially work a ridiculous amount of unpaid hours. And we would equally be in a pickle if these people quit their jobs and went abroad. Sorry but all of those people are in line for a public sector pay rise long before consultants.

the problem with the current conditions though, is that the doctors who remain are working in untenable conditions. The conditions are terrible for a number of reasons but accentuated by doctors leaving and by unfilled staff positions.

Doctors who are overworked, overtired, seeing patients in corridors, covering more than one job, working without a break for the toilet or food - they will be the ones who are struck off when the inevitable mistakes happen.

Sick of this BS. To say that taxes pay for training is a really lazy statement that doesn't go even halfway to understanding how medical education works in the UK.

I learned while working and providing a service, at a lower rate of pay than a consultant, but, often, particularly in senior years doing a similar level of work. By providing this service, especially out of hours cover overnight and weekends, I freed up consultant hours for them to do the work that I couldn't. During that time, I paid for my own exams, courses and training, and studied in my own time, often several hours per night while not being payed for it at all.

If there wasn't trainees , then there would be virtually no work done in the NHS.

They ARE striking and they ARE quitting and there are massive vacancies in their sectors, because they cannot recruit or retain.
And we are already in a pickle.