Vegan diet and high oestrogen content for women (and men)

[unsureatthispoint]

I sometimes watch influencers to wind down in the evenings or for the aesthetics and light entertainment. A few young ones (30ish) are vegan and are now doing 'Veganuary', providing recipe ideas, saying what they eat 'in a week' and buying vegan 'on a budget' to help with the cost of living crisis.

Most of the dishes they have seem to be based on tofu, soy sauce or pulses. Shouldn't they be concerned about the amount of oestrogenic foods they consume? For some of them, their male partners seem to have been influenced too and are now long-time vegans. Is so much oestrogen healthy for men? The amount of goitrogenic vegetables like kale, broccoli and cauliflower could be problematic also for the thyroid?

The multitude of expensive supplements they seem to take in order to cover their nutritional needs are also based on pulses which only adds up to the issue IMO.

What do others think?

Exactly

all of the above

there’s a lot more to worry about in modern meat and dairy

I’m vegan because eating meat makes me really ill. My body doesn’t digest it and I feel like I’m being poisoned. I am also dairy and egg intolerant- ie makes me very sick and causes a lot of inflammation.

I do worry about my son eating all the meat pumped full of hormones and having been fed God knows what.

I’ve never felt so good as on a vegan diet (previously veggie for 30 years.

I do think different people feel better on different diets.

I mean anecdotally I have met loads of people who feel amazing on a plant based diet but it doesn’t really tell me anything about the health benefits or otherwise, for that I look at the scientific research papers which have found

So, if the opposite were true and you felt awful on a vegan diet, saw your DH put on weight, etc you would continue on it just because you've read research stating it should be beneficial? You would ignore your own experience? Madness

I’m vegan because eating meat makes me really ill. My body doesn’t digest it and I feel like I’m being poisoned. I am also dairy and egg intolerant- ie makes me very sick and causes a lot of inflammation

Yes, I've heard some people have a similar experience, and that's fair enough.

But I find this very different from being an influencer without medical qualifications whatsoever and trying to peddle a diet because it's fashionable and will supposedly increase your fandom and sponsorships with a complete disregard for the fact that it may not be a healthy lifestyle choice for many. Shame on the big brands who support these vloggers also

I'm delighted to to read that those myths have been been debunked because I tried to look into my it and was left somewhat confused or at least, feeling like there was amiguity.

I'd just like to say in general - re the Far Eastern diet; it's different from a lot of the soy products that we're eating and drinking (soy milk, soy flower in bread etc,). They don't really process it as much or in the same way. As someone said there's fermention etc. I didn't see anyone driingsoy milk. They drank green and oloong tea with no milk.

The soy products were mostly eda mame (unprocessed soy beans), tofu, natto, miso paste, soy sauce.

*flour

*flour

That’s very clearly misinterpreting what I was saying, but if I had recently changed to a plant based diet and felt “awful” I’d firstly think, could I have a virus or any other health issue unrelated to diet? Then I’d examine which macro and micro nutrients I was getting and make sure I was getting what I needed. If my husband started gaining weight I wouldn’t do anything about it because it’s up to him what he eats but if he asked my advice I’d suggest he was probably eating too many calories and offer help to cut down.

If you're interested in the science, I'd watch scientists rather than influencers.
blogs.bmj.com/gut

The general gist seems to be; eat a wide variety of plants to improve and maintain your gut biome.

It sounds like these “influencers” don’t know much about eating a balanced vegan diet. There are loads of other plant based milks and proteins available, the best being oat milk as it is the most environmentally friendly.

The only nutrient that isn’t found naturally in a plant based diet is vitamin B12, so that is the only supplement a vegan needs if they are eating a balanced diet.

If you want some really good vegan recipes look out for Bosh. We have one of their books and the food is really tasty.

B12 is in marmite, tempeh, nutritional yeast and nori.

It is quite easy to be vegan or mainly vegan and be healthy.
The Venn diagram of healthy vegans and Instagram influences may not however include a large intersection.

The percentage of rapid progressively motile sperm is significantly higher in vegans.
Furthermore, the oxidation-reduction potential and the proportion of spermatozoon with DNA damage is significantly higher in the non-vegans.

I'm sure your fave influences can direct you to the research.

I stand corrected about nori. The other foods are processed and have vitamin B added to them.

I agree with your comment about healthy vegans and Instagram infuencers

@RampantIvy B12 is produced by some bacteria in the fermentation process, tempeh is the only one that CAN have sensible levels but B12 is also present in Kimchi etc. in teeny quantities.

Producing lacto ferments with higher levels of naturally occurring B12 is an interesting topic. I look at the stuff bubbling in my kitchen and wonder how to test them. I'm not tempted to ask an influencer

@unsureatthispoint what are your views on dairy products?
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976

Thank you @AdventFridgeOfShame. I imagine that it is still not that easy for all vegans to eat natural sources of B12 if they don't eat kimchi or tempeh. I'm not a fan of kimchi myself. I don't know if I have eaten tempeh.

There is a great vegan place I go to in Sheffield that does brilliant vegan food, but I'm not sure whether it is seitan or tempeh they use..

I don't watch influencers. I'm too old for that

The percentage of rapid progressively motile sperm is significantly higher in vegans

No, not convinced that so much soy and pulses can increase virility, it would be easy to think that the opposite was true amongst some groups

British meat does not contain hormones

"Anyone concerned over the potential health implications or animal welfare issues of hormone-treated meat can relax: meat in the UK does not contain added hormones."

naturaler.co.uk/hormones-in-meat-uk/

I don't think vegan vloggers are usually encouraging veganism from a health perspective anyway. For me, and most other vegans, it's about animal welfare so we don't really care if we have to take supplements or whatever - I think people in it for health just say "plant based."

Lots of people are concerned about vegan "ultra processed" food but for lots of us those products are treats rather than daily. Plus, I ate a lot of junk when I wasn't vegan lol

There are many very masculine and muscular vegan men about so I wouldn't worry too much.

This

sorry, I dont mean to be rude, or sound rude, but what I am trying to say is I am qualified and experienced in scientific research, and well able to review/evaluate research, and assess its precision, accuracy, reliability and statistical robustness.

Where as you, by your own admission, are ust reading stuff, and going by your own feelings and anecdotes.

That is all I meant, it isn't rude, it's just that I am a scientist, and you are not, and you are not really able to judge what is and isnt science, that is what I was saying

based on what you have written here

@unsureatthispoint

How do they process green tea different

www.nurse.com/blog/caffeines-effects-on-estrogen-levels-vary-by-ethnicity/

Total caffeine intake was calculated from coffee, black tea, green tea and caffeinated soda. Findings differed slightly when the source of caffeine was considered individually. Consuming 200 milligrams or more of caffeine from coffee mirrored the findings for overall caffeine consumption, with Asians having elevated estrogen levels, whites having lower estrogen levels and the results for blacks not statistically significant.

That’s great for British meat. But not everyone eats British meat. Not so good on the Antibiotics apparently.

but as I said some people are better off with meat, others it can really hurt their health. Individuals need to decide