Aibu to think we need to change the system? Too many men getting away with pump & dump!

[FamilyLife2point4]

Just that I suppose?
Im reading lots of threads about men getting away with sooo much in terms of creating a child. The system here in the UK seems flawed, CMS seem pretty incompetent, courts don’t / won’t enforce men to take on their fair share of parenting / childcare / finances involved in raising a child. Not to mention the emotional benefits for a child’s well-being and sense of belonging at having an active, present, safe father, (whether the parents are together or not).

From what I read, some other countries have far fairer systems and absent parents are actively prosecuted. I am also aware this applies to the smaller minority of absent mothers vs single dads too, but I honestly don’t read anywhere near as many stories of that so this is more focussed on men (no offence intended).

I don’t believe this country will change on its own, but what will it take - those wronged parents (& children) plus supporters perhaps coming together and actively petitioning to change the law? Open to suggestions?

What if we could change the law - what would it look like?
I’m also thinking about this from the other perspective of women who withhold children from their dads (for the variety of wrong reasons - not because the dad is violent / abusive / danger to kids etc) and how a reform could also ensure equality all round.

For clarity my name is as it suggests, happily married with 2 kids, DH grafts hard, would try shirk housework if I let him away with it, but has always been hands on with kids - it just makes me sooo sad and mad at all the inequality I keep reading about.

YANBU - to think that if you do the crime, you do the time - provide for and raise those kids equally - the system needs reformed.

YABU - absent parents / Disney dads should continue to pump and dump kids as they please and we should do fuck all about the system that enables it.

Pump and dump? That’s gross 🤮

100% of voters have said you’re unreasonable @FamilyLife2point4 but it most likely isn’t for the reason you put in your little menu option. And perhaps more for your use of weird language etc.

I agree with @SavoirFlair that the way you have described creating a human being is really horrible. It’s a term I associate with expressing breast milk when on medication or having drunk a lot of alcohol and then throwing it away if it can’t be consumed by the baby, but doing it to maintain supply, so I was pretty confused by the title but now I’m just grossed out!

Actually think I’ve quoted a breastfeeding reference 😄 shows you were my life is at - but yeah that’s effectively what some men are doing imo - some seem to play along for a while too then its ‘all too much’ but can move on super quick with the new gf etc and dump all responsibility - some even repeat this behaviour (several kids later to several different women - yet the woman is blamed for not knowing / been lied too / drawn in by the man-child).

I read that some women enable ‘cocklodger / lazy’ behaviours in DH/DP - I am thinking we are enabling the system by not addressing such inequality.

You can't make someone parent, as in be there and do the parenting..it would be a disaster and unfair on the child. Finances, yes absolutely there is much to be done on all fronts.

Women should stop having babies with men who have already abandoned one baby. Men should be educated from a young age that babies are their responsibility too. Not sure if locking people up encourages them to be active parents

You grossed me out too much to even care what your point is

So too many men want to pump breast milk? Is this a new thing?

Condoms and the pill. Both parties should be bearing responsibility for their own fertility and birth control.

Of course you’re not unreasonable. Only people who are being deliberately obtuse or have some weird agenda would disagree. Men are getting away with far too much and women and children are largely the ones that suffer.

There will always be bad dads and trying to force a bad dad to be a good dad is a recipe for disaster. The only thing that should be forced is the money they owe in child maintenance.

The cycle needs to break, bad dads need to be shunned from the family, so many women put up with bad dads and their kids learn the same behaviours.
More needs to be done to support women to leave bad relationships and stand on their own two feet again. There have been so many stories on here where the OP knows it’s wrong but can’t imagine living financially without the shitty partner.

Some men want the status of having the wife and family but not the graft, women need to say, no you don’t deserve any of it!!

I absolutely agree

it’s appalling that you can legally completely abandon your child, have them experience poverty and then take a new gf/bf on holiday? Passport’s should be confiscated for non paying parents like In Australia and the US
also less single parents would be reliant on the government if child maintenance was required by law

I agree that sadly someone can't be forced to parent or be present, but at least there should be a strong system for making them pay up.

I suspect one reason people are shy of enforcing it is because there will always be a bunch of fucking idiots who say 'But if you do that, unscrupulous women will get pregnant so they can make money off having a baby!' and people will believe that because... misogyny. Yeah, sure, women will rake it in and spend it all on botox and gin. 🙄

DNA test = 50 per cent residency till 18.

Works very well in Scandinavia, home to the world’s happiest children.

Almost impossible to dodge, which is the core of its success. You’d be amazed how many men stick with DC’s mother.

Your "options" are ridiculous. Totally biased, shutting down any reasonable discussion. And what about the women with serval kids to several didn't men?

If you want a reasoned and nuanced debate about parenting, gender, and responsibilities, perhaps try to start out by leading the debate by the nose?

@Eyerollcentral With a much fairer system regarding maintenance- non-payment resulting in imprisonment may act as a deterrent at least. If non-resident parent doesnt want to parent then they could pay a higher maintenance to enable resident parent to pay for full childcare, including getting themselves a break.
Allowing arrears to build / not be wiped off / not forgotten and effectively collected.

im so glad I don’t have an ex or DSC or any such to contend with, I can’t believe this system is so unfair!

Would be interested to learn more about the quality of life for living arrangement.

Reminds me of the olden days where you just stuck together in misery because that’s the right thing to do.

Women should stop having babies with men who have already abandoned one baby.

I agree. I also think that there needs to be more education about contraception, and women need more educating on how not to settle for any old sperm donor.

‘you can’t make someone parent… as in be there and do the parenting’

You can make them use a condom.

Some people are feckless but some people lose jobs, are ill, etc. There is more than one reason for a person to fall in to arrears. You have a very simplistic approach, possibly because your reality is currently far removed from those living in a situations with an absent parent. You cannot force people to be parents unfortunately.

Yes and more honest conversations are needed before deciding to have a baby.

Me and DP had really honest conversations about careers, finances and childcare and even night time feeds.

Also sometimes a man is led by the woman into pushing to start a family, I think some men could just not bother to be honest and be happy.

DNA test = 50% residency till 18.

I think you'd be amazed at how many women had no idea who the father was if you introduced that law.

In general though, it's mistake to make people parent against their will. Pay for your children yes, but that's as far as it's wise to insist.

I am not sure forcing childcare of children on unwilling sperm donors is good for the childrens wellbeing.

Yes to putting more in place to fullfill their financial obligations.

"Pump and dump" - what a revolting term. "Disney Dads" is a very silly expression.

It’s too late by that point you cant put the child back in the condom unfortunately.