Mother with severe depression - and I can't face it

[BlessedKali]

I'll try to summarise a rather large picture as best I can-

My mum has always had bad mental health as long as I can remember, I was an only child and she was a single mum so it was mostly just me and her. When I say bad mental health I mean mainly depression and alcoholism

I don't know how and if this is related but she has always seemed to make poor choices for her life - not socialising, not having hobbies, drinking problems away, engaging in mind numbing activities (like playing dull games on a phone for hours rather than reading or other more positive pastimes) never doing excercise, always taking a taxi rather than walking, she never works. I list these things because it is hard for me to know what came first, the chicken or the egg. Is she like this because she is depressed, or depressed because she is like this?

Either way, it was quite shit at times growing up - she was very verbally abusive as a teenager when drunk, she wasn't there for me at all, she taught me nothing about how to manage the world, she quite often made out that it was my fault she was like that..... I basically dragged myself up and figured out how to be a woman, how to make life work.

Fastforward a few decades and now I'm a mum of 3 kids under 6. We (me and hubby) are in the middle of renovating an old mill, living in a static caravan whilst we do this (which is pretty full on work in itself), we are trying to be great parents, to pay for a good (steiner) school for our children, and I am trying to study. Basically: life is full on trying to give my kids everything and be a balanced human being.

Meanwhile my mum is still in the same position as before. Only now I don't have time to give her.
I obviously accept that she is not supportive in a normal motherly way to me, but I feel like at this time in my life I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GIVE HER.

And basically I just feel bad that she is depressed and alone, and that I am not helping her.

But I can't even face ringing her. I just can't hear about her misery anymore, I am so, so worn out by keeping my family thriving, than even just hearing 20 minutes of the same, depressed, self-obsessed conversation that I have been hearing for what feels like forever .. I just feel like I can't

So I'm not really contacting her much...

AIBU?

There are points with people where if they won’t be willing to try and change… they’re never going to. Don’t risk your own happiness and mental health to be dragged down. I’m sorry if this offends people but there are people that are like dementors and it’s all doom and gloom.

My story is very similar OP and I’m at a similar point in my life. I have moved to very limited contact with my Mum. Handful of visits a year and no speaking in between.

You can’t change her.

Therapy has really helped me.

You are amazing OP, things could have been so different for you but you’ve been so strong and pulled yourself out of it.

I had a severe eating disorder for over 18 years and when my baby came along it was the turning point for me getting better because I can’t leave her without a mum and I am no use to her, feeling like absolute shit all the time with no energy and other priorities.

I also had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol which is now over because it drained me and made me numb - I did this for my child, to be present in their life.

I came here to say what @VastQuantities has always said almost exactly! Hugs to you OP.

and I’m comparing the eating disorder with the alcohol addiction because stopping it was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do and felt like withdrawal from an addictive substance. Lord knows I tried many times before I got there.

What an amazing person you are.

Thanks for all the responses and interesting comments. Quite moving to see some people who have had a similar experience. When I read your posts It is quite clear you need to take care of yourselves first - it's much easier to be clear when looking at this objectively.

And for those who I have upset about my 'lack of knowlege on depression'. I have never professed to be an expert, I am however relaying my observations of having my only family member in a state of depression for my entire life. In that sense, I may be more of an expert than most, even if my observations are uncomfortable.

And yes of course I have researched, and read up on depression. I could read a million online articles who vaguely describe what it is like, and still not fully understand... But I will be honest, from observing my mother, I'm not sure I fully buy into this 'illness that can't be helped'. I have watched her for years, been at her side, helped her, encouraged her, taken her to get help, coaxed her, nursed her... And what I endlessly see is someone who does not want to do anything for herself, but must have everything done for her. And that attitude is never going to help her get better.

Anti-depressants are there to help someone overcome those feelings and then start to move forward in life, if you take anti-depressants and STILL sit around doing absolutely nothing... Then how would you ever get better? It's impossible. At some point it requires will power, it requires pushing through, it requires determination and courage.

When I was a teenager I always enjoyed reading books from the deep south... Maya Angelou etc. I remember being in awe of the strength of those women, the adversities they faced and yet they just managed to get on, raise loads of kids and support a community. There was often an older woman in these books who said a line to the main character such as ''Wipe your tears girl, no-one gonna give you a good life and no one gonna look after you, and those tears aint gonna do anything for you, so wipe your tears, get up, and carry on''. I suppose I resonated with thay for obvious reasons, but I think maybe we could do with a bit more of that in our lives. Stoicisim?

I might be saying something very TABOO here, but are we over pathologising human behaviour, and in an essence enabling it?

I'm studying part time psychology so will get back to you in a decade about that...

OP I get it. My dad was/is clinically depressed. People are projecting their own guilt on this thread for their dcs upbringing if they have had mh challenges. Don't take it personally.

Have a think about what contact you can manage. For me, I like the odd text to/from my dad and we meet up a few times a year for a coffee. That's all I have in me.

Also - if you break an arm you go to the dr and you get it fixed. You don't go to bed and demand everyone runs around after you/caters to you/get pissed/degrade your dc because your arm is broken and you won't see a dr. You are well within your rights to be angry that your mum did not get herself help so that she could be a good mum. Until you feel that anger/sadness/unfairness (you were a little girl who deserved MUCH better) you won't move past it. So rage away at her and her selfishly untreated depression. Depression does make people selfish. It's okay to admit that and be angry about it.

I now have a lot of empathy for my dad, I love him and feel sorry for him. I have forgiven him - but I couldn't do that without getting angry at his uselessness.

Wow well done, that is such a beautiful thing to read. Your little girl is so lucky to have you, and you will have so much wisdom to pass her from overcoming your struggles. X

@PurpleMarie what a nasty, pedantic response. That clearly wasn't what the OP was saying.

Personally I don't think the OP needs to do any more to try and understand her mum's depression. She's living a good life despite being dragged up by a terrible parent. It's not her responsibility to try and give even more to her mum.

You can’t possibly be this dim, so I guess you’re just unhelpful and unpleasant.

OP, I would be prioritising my own family, too.

I am on your side, OP. Depressed people are often very selfish and draining. Depression does not mean that people should refuse to help themselves, or expect endless emotional labour from friends and family. At some point, the caregiver burns out. And is then told they don't understand depression. Yeah, no.

If you suffer from mental ill health it's harder to access help but that does not excuse you from doing it. That sounds harsh, but I have two DC who have struggled with their mental health (one is still working through it) and they are both working their backsides off to make their lives as good as they can be. DC2 has BPD, is autistic, has depression and is going through a battery of diagnostics to work out what's causing the physical issues that have landed them in a wheelchair. And at the same time is studying for a STEM degree and living a full life with friends, going out etc. It's bloody hard, but they're trying.

Your mum seems to just want everything handed to her. My late husband was like that (also depression/alcohol) - he just wanted to be rescued and was not willing to do any of the hard work. There comes a time with someone like that when self-preservation has to be the priority.

And i suppose I'm getting into deepyr conversations here about what is depression and why ...

But my main reason for posting this was that I feel no urge to contact her .. I can't bear the thought of it.... And for that I feel guilty. I feel like a bad person, a bad daughter. A selfish person. Its sometimes hard to see clearly in a fog of self-doubt.... Especially when I had been told so many times when I was younger that I am selfish, and this is my fault, that I am a bad person ...

I appreciate the responses. X

And for those who I have upset about my 'lack of knowlege on depression'. I have never professed to be an expert, I am however relaying my observations of having my only family member in a state of depression for my entire life. In that sense, I may be more of an expert than most, even if my observations are uncomfortable.

This is entirely correct.

Those of us who did grow up with a parent who has a mental illness are experts in what that's like. Sometimes that involves having insights that other people would prefer we didn't have.

In your case, it seems pretty obvious to me that when you talk about your experiences in your childhood there's an underlying reference to the lack of agency you had, as compared to the choice of the mentally ill parent not to try and do anything to help themselves.

No, you're not being unreasonable at all, OP. You sound like you're committed to being a much better mother to your children than your mother was to you and sometimes, in order to do that, you have to put some distance between you. When you have no capacity you have no capacity.

Are you worried that she might intentionally or unintentionally kill herself if you're not around to prevent it? I am aware of someone in a similar position who feels tied by that fear. It's a tough one.

Totally normal and understandable to feel some guilt OP. I won’t tell you not to feel guilty because I feel the same. It’s natural, it’s normal.

Ultimately that guilt (and sorrow and pity and all the other complex feelings a child of an alcoholic parent often feels) will be a price you have to pay to protect your own mental health and put yourself first.

My therapy really helped me see that the toxic narrative I had been spun all my life about my Mum “it’s not her fault, she’s depressed, alcoholism is a disease” etc etc was not that cut and dry. When there is a distinct lack of trying to get better, a pattern of selfishness that has been observed over decades, the narrative about them being blameless starts to fade.

It’s also quite normal for your relationship with your alcoholic parent to change when you become a parent yourself. That’s what happened to me. I have my own MH problems but I work hard every single day to get better, for the sake of my family. My Mum can’t say the same.

Yes, I think this is being triggered again now as an adult, as I step into another moment of my life when I could really do with a mum! Someone to be there and hear my parenting worries, someone to turn up with a dinner cooked, to come and be with the kids so I can go and sort the rubbish out! Etc etc.....

It's brought to the surface, again, that my mum is not motivated to get better by her duties/role as a mother/grandmother herself, and actually requires my energy, actually requires my support.

Between my child/teenage years, and now I have managed to see her as the 'one in need' ... But now I am back in a position where that dynamic is so wrong, I can't be a part of it .

I am a mental health nurse with over 38 years experience. Society has decided in the last few years that every dysfunctional individual must be diagnosed with depression. I have worked with many severely depressed parents over the years and in the main they want to get better and their children are generally a driver for this even when it seems impossible. Severe depression is not eating/drinking enough, slowed speech, self neglect, suicidal thoughts etc. I find the trend for everything being due to depression almost offensive to those who are really experiencing severe depression. I would suggest your Mum has features of a personality disorder and alcoholism rather than severe depression which tends to be cyclic even without treatment. There is help out there if she chooses to access it but in reality this would need a lot of desire to change.

She has recently mentioned this.... But did also threaten me with it alot as a teenager. And when I say threaten I ena quite literally leave me numerous voice messages when I was out of the house saying I was so terrible to her that she was going to kill herself... It was very fucking unsettling to say the least. And nothing ever came of it.

This time it wasn't a 'threat' but just a comment.... But I just feel like I have no capacity to hold it anymore. I absolutely don't know what I can do. I feel like she has to figure this out herself. Maybe I am wrong.

Thank god you say that! I also thought potentially a personality disorder, but don't really have an expertise to base that on.

How could I get her a private diagnosis? Would I be looking at a psychologist or a psychiatrist?

I am saying private because I imagine the NHS waiting list for MH services is impossibly long....

Or if she went to her GP and said she thought she had BPD would they do a diagnosis relatively quick?

Wow how refreshing to read this.

She had a reasonably easy life, she had mentally stable parents, who doted on her and did everything for her.

She may take a different view. Do you know much about your father, for example? She may have been in an abusive relationship. Absolutely no excuse for destructive and abusive behaviour, but maybe a reason?

My dm was very depressed for most of her (and all of my) life. It’s draining and damaging for all concerned. Although she tried to get herself on track, was very loving towards to me, and did her best for me, my childhood was rather fractured and dysfunctional, and it takes its toll. Her life, I discovered over the years, mostly as an adult, read like a Greek Tragedy, and was illuminating as a reason for her (in my eyes) self-destructive mindset.

In reality getting a diagnosis won't change anything unless she wants it to. There are many people who have undiagnosed personality disorders. A GP is unlikely to diagnose and would refer to the community mental health team but really there would need to be a purpose for the referral and your mum would obviously have to consent and be on board with it. Plus ideally she would need to access alcohol support as well.

No, you're not wrong. You can't look after everyone. It's sad your mum is how she is and that as a result she treated you very badly in your childhood. It says a lot for your strength and resilience that you seem to have emerged from it as positive and focussed as you are.

You can't rescue your mother: she's got to do that herself. I note that you're straight into how can YOU get her a diagnosis when let's face it, she's had plenty of time to push for that herself. Talk to her about getting a diagnosis and let her pursue it.

Have you considered talk to a psychotherapist? Just a few sessions might help you reframe this sense of responsibility for your mum. I suspect that no matter how many of us tell you it's okay to take time out, the little girl who was brought up to feel responsible for mum's existence isn't going to hear us.