To choose between grammar or private school for one child and local comp for the other child

[Destinyforthetaking22]

Hi

I have a child (youngest of 2) who I am told is very clever and should pass grammar entrance exams with ease. I can afford to send them to private school (with some sacrifice elsewhere). I am a lone parent so the decision is all mine. No further financial income from their father for this.

I have another child who will likely go to the outstanding local academy and I think it’s the best environment for them there. This child will go to secondary school first. I am an educated professional who went to a state school myself.

Is private a better choice than grammar school for my youngest if I can manage it? What are the main differences between the two? Should I put my eldest in private too (even though I don’t think it’s right environment for them)? I don’t want them to hate me for not giving the same opportunity.

Would especially love to hear from anyone with experience of one at private, one at grammar and one at a good comp!

TIA

Hi OP, sure - I went to a top girls grammar in Orpington, a few decades ago :)

The teachers were excellent - they all loved their subject and were passionate advocates for learning; more than a few had PhDs. I loved (almost) every lesson, even in subjects that I didn't naturally have an aptitude for. In subjects I enjoyed, the teachers lit an absolute flame in me that carried me through undergraduate studies and beyond. I loved doing my homework, never needed any incentivising to study beyond what the class teachers gave.

At exam time we had a lot of opportunity to take mocks, and extra practise in areas of challenge, to absolutely maximise our results. I got all A* at GCSE and all A's at A-level, which wasn't uncommon. Only about 5 girls in our year group didn't go on to Uni.

There was a lot of extra curricular stuff that the school offered (or offered support with). So I did Duke of Edinburgh award, including archery as my sporting component; acted in loads of plays; did debating, including the Oxford Schools competition; did language exchanges and trips abroad, etc. We weren't a well-off family but cost was no barrier to any of these extras - I'm sure they were heavily subsidised, maybe by the PTA?

There was a lot of support for Uni admissions, personal statement practise and feedback, etc. Also interview practise, if I remember right. We were set up to succeed, and I don't think I could have got a better education even in private school. Certainly my school's exam results far outstripped any of the local private places.

The differences were around behaviour, academic expectations and aspirations.

This particular secondary school had low level disruption. My son's lessons were frequently interrupted. In addition, he was bullied for being a 'geek' for wanting to study.

The work set in Year 7 was more like Year 5 work and the difference between what was set for my other Y7 was vast. Bear in mind, both children were of similar ability.

Even at parents' evening the focus at the secondary was all on the lower ability children, which was right, but here was talk whatsoever about higher ability kids. What got me in the end though, was there was no ambition, no aspiration. That was what really got me.

After we left, the school went from Outstanding to RI. Ofsted cited how the school was failing to reach the higher ability kids.

As mentioned, I work with a number of secondaries and I would like to point out that my experience is representitive of one secondary. It does not represent some of the schools I work with that are ambitious, where children excel, where there are opportunities for all.

DS went to a super selective grammar school which I have heard described as a 'hot house grammar'.
For him, it was the perfect environment and he excelled there. High aspirations from the teachers, and surrounded by a real mix of students. Mocks were generally BEFORE a holiday, which was great because then he could relax in the holidays and not be constantly thinking about mock exams throughout the holidays.
In fact, in reality, I would say that he actually got less homework than students at some of the other local schools! For 6th form the amount of work ramped up, but wouldn't you expect that anywhere?
For the right child, the perfect environment. And by the right child, I don't necessarily mean a MENSA level child! DS worked hard, but definitely had a social life too.

Hi OP. I see your dilemma but really, there is no point whatsoever coming on here and asking people their views on 'grammar' versus 'private' school - because nobody has the foggiest which private school or which grammar you are talking about.

For instance, there are grammars in Lincolnshire that take about half of all children in the area. So not that selective. In Bucks it may be more like 25%. Somewhere like the super-selective grammars like Tiffin in Kingston, there is no catchment and maybe 15 applicants for every place. So what do you mean by 'grammar?' How selective is it?

Exactly the same applies with independent schools. They vary massively in terms of intake and results.

So rather than asking people on here who won't have a clue, just go on the websites for the grammar, the independent and the comprehensive. Compare their exam results at GCSE and A-level. Decide if the 'difference' is worth it.

For instance, if the comp gets 20% 9-7 at GCSE and the grammar and / or independent 75%, then it's probably worth it. But you need the statistics to make an informed decision or for anyone to advise you.

For instance, if the comp gets 20% 9-7 at GCSE and the grammar and / or independent 75%, then it's probably worth it. But you need the statistics to make an informed decision or for anyone to advise you.

If the comp gets 20% 9-7 and the independent 75% GCSES grades 9-7, I would say it was probably not worth it. That's pretty good for a comp in a grammar area (so not really a comp) and pretty poor for an independent.

OP needs to look at statistics critically with the context in mind.

I do agree with your point about looking at actual schools and not stereotyping sectors.

Thanks for all the replies. My ask for experiences at grammars and private was for general opinions having not experienced it myself. Of course I will take all replies with a pinch of salt and not verbatim but helps to build a general picture of what could be expected. Nothing is a guaranteed except death and taxes!

I have been looking at Ofsted reports and of course exam results. Will also visit a few times with the kids to see how they feel and where they like. I think that’s the best I can do.

If anyone does have experience of the Essex grammars especially KEGS and Queen Elizabeth Grammar your advice would be gratefully received!

FYI I am the kid in the family sent to the local comp whilst both my siblings were sent to private school. It fostered a lot of resentment in me as well as making me feel worthless and my self esteem was shattered.

also FYI I’m the only one who went to uni and the only one with a post grad degree on top.

still sucks though knowing my parents made that decision

I think it's fine to have one at grammar and one at a normal state school, if one is bright enough to pass the exam for grammar, but the other isn't. However, paying for the brighter one to go private strikes me as not very fair on your other DC and I fear it could foster resentment down the line if the DC at state ever adds up how much you spent educating their sibling and not them.

I have been re reading the thread for all the great advice. I suddenly thought what should I do if only younger DC pass the private school test and older doesn’t? Do I deny younger going? What would be the solution

There are not that many private school options near us.

If your youngest is truly bright he will be the one least disadvantaged in a comp. Academic people learn just for fun, the thirst for knowledge means they find a way to read and understand things wherever they are.

It is your eldest who will suffer most in a comp where in the bigger classes they tend to ignore the average middle. So long as they are not causing trouble they are invisible.

I’d do the best I could for each child individually. If that’s private for one but the other can’t access it because of their academic ability then so be it. I would try to find the best state/non selective school I could for them, potentially pay for extra tutors or sports or music or whatever. But I wouldn’t hold one child back because of their sibling, same as I wouldn’t stop one child going to say football academy or taking a scholarship to dance school just because the other couldn’t go.

But if I sent one private the other would still get all the same holidays, activities, driving lessons etc etc. It’s not on to use all the family resources on one child or to expect one child to make big sacrifices for another. So if your oldest would suffer then I wouldn’t send youngest.

i live in a grammar area, and it’s not u usual to have one child in a grammar school and the other in a state school.

I think it would be unfair to do one private and one state. Not all private schools are particularly academic, so it would be a mistake to assume that private equals academic excellence.

Also, don’t assume that children pass the eleven plus without some sort of tutoring. My dc had to do verbal and non-verbal reasoning, and it would be unfair if the first time you see these are in the actual again. You can buy practice books from WH Smith’s though, although check first what your exams cover.

Have you discovered the Elevenplus website. There lots of good information on it plus a very good forum area.
Eleven plus website

I would recommend it highly.

I have a friend with two older siblings who were sent to private as they were perceived as very talented in a specific area. My friend went to the local comp. The two siblings never took this skill further although they enjoy it on a personal level still. They did other subjects at uni and have decent jobs that aren't linked to private school eg one is a state school teacher now.

My friend is the MD of a charity but was perceived as the less achieving into her 40s. She had honest conversations with siblings and now has a good relationship. Her parents are still a bit at arms length because they didn't stop to think about what their actions said to her.

Grammar and comp fine. I don't think private school is valid.

No, you shouldn't deny the younger going because the oldest hasn't got in. There will be times they get opportunities the other doesn't get. Otherwise you have to continue it: You can't play for the football team because he didn't get in etc.
Just don't make a major song and dance if the younger gets in and the older hadn't.

Send them to the right schools for them. Start by researching the schools around you. Private schools vary massively so you can’t say they are in general wrong or right for any child.

That’s about much more than school choices.

If you can afford to send both to private school I would, not so much for the academic side of things but so they can meet the right people. Connections matter just as much if not more than grades.
I say this coming from a very dodgy string of state schools for my whole education. I got top grades through my own efforts, but didn’t meet anyone useful.

I know and have known people (including one of my parents) who were the child not allowed to go to a grammar or private school and they still resent it massively now even in their 50s and my late father resented his brother all his life because of it.

Treat your children equally. Always.

My two pence here - I have DS1 who tried the SS Grammars and didnt get through. He went for weekly classes with a tutor but we didnt push him too much so I think he wasnt a natural fit for grammar. The comps are not great where we are so he tried 2 excellent private schools and got into both. He is thriving there at the moment and a very happy boy.

DS2 has just gone through the same process. got into all 3 SS grammars here - and got into 2 of the top private schools in london. Same tutor as DS1 went to . Much less extra work at home. So more a natural fit for Grammar we thought.

Decision was hard - but we would be killing ourselves if we had to put 2 into private. So keeping in mind that life is a marathon not a sprint , we have chosen the grammar route. This way we will have a cushion for University and extra clubs and activities that he wants to pursue.

No regrets and DS2 is totally onboard - he wasnt wowed by the privates or the SSG to be honest - he is pretty level headed and balanced so happy with the choice.

I'd send them both to state and get a tutor to help fill in the gaps for the 11 plus.

I had one child in private secondary and one in a comp - we’re inner city. The one that went private was a very average child, and the comp one was a high achiever. The comp child did far better at GCSEs (all A*) than the private one, as I would expect (private one got mainly Bs, with three As and the odd C). The private child went to a comp for sixth form (had more subjects on offer). The comprehensive had a lot more extracurricular stuff on offer, as well as more subject choice at GCSE. There were behaviour problems in the comp by other children. Both schools had good and poor teachers. Poor teaching affected the private school child more, because they weren’t as academically as able. We spent a lot of money on comp child’s hobby that took 30 hours a week, and eventually became a professional in it. Both seem pretty well rounded adults now. The less academic child went to a top university where they got a first. The more academic one didn’t go at all. I wish I’d worried less. I don’t think the private school was worth the money, but you make the decisions you think best at the time.

Treat them both the same, it’ll only cause problems in the future.

I know siblings who were sent to different school, the high achiever who went to private school ended up pregnant at 17, married at 18 and divorced by 21. Never worked a day in her life.

Other child went to local school and I think made a point of doing well and is now a nurse , happily married .

If the local academy is outstanding and you're happy with it for DC1, why not send both DC there? I speak as the child of a mother who pushed my sister and myself very hard, academically. We both got good grades. We both also learned to attach our value as people to our achievements, and felt that there was some level of condition to being loved.

There is more to education than A grades. It's also about preparing for living in society - private schools too often seem to churn out people who have been accustomed to socialising with only a particular social class, race, etc.

My husband went to private school. Some of his younger siblings did not. It still causes resentment now.