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Original poster

Flexible working request rejected - any advice?

75 replies

blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:17

I have been working 3 days a week on a trial after requesting this on my return from maternity leave.

The trial has now expired and the business have said they're rejecting my request based on the detrimental impact on my teams ability to grow and succeed (sales team - I'm a manager).

I completely disagree as our contribution is up 200% compared to the year I was off and they had a full time replacement for me, we've hit out targets every month since I've been back (and my targets aren't pro rated they're full time ones) - and my team are all performing well.

I believe they simply just don't want me to work part time.

I am also now pregnant again. They've said I can extend my 3 day working week until I go on maternity leave but on my return I'll be back to 5 days unless I request another flexible working arrangement, but my boss has categorically told me they won't sign off 3 days.

He's made several comments now about how I 'need' to work more days.

I log in on all of my days off and do probably an extra day in overtime that they're not paying me for - always available on the phone etc.

My boss has also suggested that he may not replace me while I'm on maternity leave and he may just cover my role as he has the capacity to do so. My argument is it this is the case then surely having me back 3 days is better than nothing and he could help out on my two days off?

I have so much evidence to show why the trial has worked in actual monetary terms and the happiness and performance of my team.

I've requested an appeal meeting but would really appreciate any advice as this is eating me up to be honest.

I'm 20 weeks pregnant and feeling very upset about it all and have completely lost my appetite, not sleeping due to stress. I feel as though they're pushing me out.

Do I have a case for constructive dismissal if they refuse?

OP posts:
Squamata · 28/01/2023 08:22

I think it's worth investigating with a lawyer. So you have all these discussions in writing?

Tbh they sound unpleasant and inflexible. Even if you bring as claim and win, you'd probably get a payout but not a three day a week job.

rookiemere · 28/01/2023 08:24

If you're doing an unpaid day of overtime anyway can you change your request to a 4 day week? That way you can say you responded to businesses demand and you don't really work any extra hours.

Whatatimetobealivetoday · 28/01/2023 08:27

Do you think your team could have gone behind your back and said they don’t like having a manager only 3 days a week?

The growth and succeeding comment might not just be related to the targets, maybe development and support of your team instead?

yoshiblue · 28/01/2023 08:29

Call Pregnant Then Screwed for advice. They are a charity with HE advisors that can help.

yoshiblue · 28/01/2023 08:29

HR

EdithWeston · 28/01/2023 08:31

Comparison to your maternity cover won't fly.

How does it compare (if a comparison can still be made) to outputs before you went on leave? Or to outputs from any other similar teams? Are your team's targets in line with those of other similar teams? (Checking you're not on some sort of taper because of underperformance, and if the trajectory is as they had planned, or if it has been reviewed over the course of the year)

Also, growth doesn't necessarily mean just output targets. What's been going on with staff retention and development? Have there been issues relating to those (or indeed anything else) that have had to be solved by someone else present in the office (or be left until your next day in)?

Bubblebubblebah · 28/01/2023 08:34

You are not managing on 3 days only so they are right to actually say no

HandbagsnGladrags · 28/01/2023 08:35

Would they accept a 4 day working week instead? Easier to cover a workload with the extra day.

CalpolDependant · 28/01/2023 08:36

A month or so after announcing my pregnancy, I was evicted from the project I worked on and the reason cited was “poor performance”.

Like you, I had a raft of KPI evidence that my performance was excellent (in fact, I was having a bumper year in terms of on time delivery and right-first-time output - I’m a chief engineer). I also had great feedback from our customer and great feedback from my peers. All in writing.

I contacted a charity called Pregnant Then Screwed who helped me and even sent along feee representation to accompany me to a meeting with HR.

It didn’t go to court, and I didn’t have to “prove” anything much, in the end. Pregnant Then Screwed helped me to demonstrate to my company that I had suffered discrimination as a Protected Person, and my company were eager to sort it all out privately.

I got 2 months extra leave at full pay, effectively extending my maternity leave by two months. I also got a bonus, a pay rise and a formal apology letter which confirmed, amongst other things, that I would not be at risk of redundancy during my leave. (Our main customer is the MoD and I was worried in the face of post-Covid spending cuts that the squeaky wheel might get fired!)

Pregnant Then Screwed were incredible. I donated them my bonus. 10/10 would recommend. If you have a real case, they will be honest and they will help you smash it.

Aprilx · 28/01/2023 08:37

I don’t think you would have a hope of winning a constructive dismissal case. Of course the business needs to provide a specific reason as to why they turned your request down but it really is not that hard to site a business reason, and it is not at all difficult to understand why there is a preference for a full time manager to lead a sales team.

When I worked as head of function, I wouldn’t have wanted a part time manager for one of the teams below me either, I think the team deserve to have a full time manager there and not only so that they hit targets.

chocoshopoholic · 28/01/2023 08:37

Logging on on your non working day implies that the 3day arrangement isn't working.

If you are doing an unpaid day every week; could they be worried about a minimum wage/equal pay or similar claim in future with this arrangement?

Bellalalala · 28/01/2023 08:37

If you can’t manage your work on 3 days a week, which you can’t, then they are right to say it’s not working.

They could continue it. Let you work an extra day for free. But then that could cause problems if you stop doing the extra day.

If you need to work your days off, the role requires more than 3 days.

MichaelFabricantWig · 28/01/2023 08:39

You have to resign to claim constructive dismissal. You don’t have to resign to claim indirect sex discrimination. Take advice as pp have suggested

rainbowunicorn · 28/01/2023 08:39

By your own admission you are not managing to do your job in 3 days though. You say you login on all your days off, are available by phone and work the equivalent of an extra day in overtime. Your bosses will see this as a 3 day week not being workable because it really isn't. If you were truly managing to fulfil your role in 3 days then you wouldn't be logging in on days off, doing overtime and always being available by phone on your time off.

Whatatimetobealivetoday · 28/01/2023 08:40

chocoshopoholic · 28/01/2023 08:37

Logging on on your non working day implies that the 3day arrangement isn't working.

If you are doing an unpaid day every week; could they be worried about a minimum wage/equal pay or similar claim in future with this arrangement?

Very good point, you can’t really use the argument that you log in on your day off as it implies you NEED to and there’s a risk you could turn around and say you’re not doing that anymore which makes your argument null and void.

Original poster
blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:41

I don't need to work the extra day - I do it to show willing and be available because I have the time as and when my DH is around which is often but not consistent.

I have no doubt I could do my job in 3 days - my team are all senior and mostly wfh anyway - and my manager has admitted he has the capacity to help out more as he said if we struggle to recruit a maternity cover then he would probably just oversee things himself for a year.

I'm also not saying it's forever - I'd be happy to up my days to 4 after 6-12 months back in the business.

OP posts:
whataboutsecondbreakfast · 28/01/2023 08:41

To me, it seems clear that a three day week isn't working at all if you're doing at least one more day in unpaid overtime and answering your phone/being available on the fifth day.

Management is about much more than hitting targets.

LlynTegid · 28/01/2023 08:44

Seek advice as suggested, if the move from 3 to 4 days is something you are prepared to commit to start from at a given time, perhaps worth proposing.

Original poster
blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:44

In terms of how we compare to other similar sized teams - we are generally top of second in terms of performance out of say 30 teams.

We are doing very, very well.

Can't compare to before Mat leave as 80% of my team left while I was on Mat leave so I've had to recruit a new team (luckily retained the most experienced people) so we are just in a different place but we've contributed 200% in monetary terms against last year so think 200k contribution last year (me on Mat leave) vs 400k over the year I've been back and that's with less heads and a new ish team

OP posts:
Original poster
blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:45

I should also note there are other managers in the business working 3 days on a permanent contract in the same role as me!

OP posts:
PaddyDingDong · 28/01/2023 08:45

I would personally offer 4 days as it sounds like you do that really anyway. If they still say no/are difficult then contact pregnant then screwed.

PaddyDingDong · 28/01/2023 08:46

blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:45

I should also note there are other managers in the business working 3 days on a permanent contract in the same role as me!

Oh well that changes things. Are they men or women out of interest?

Pugdogmom · 28/01/2023 08:46

blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:17

I have been working 3 days a week on a trial after requesting this on my return from maternity leave.

The trial has now expired and the business have said they're rejecting my request based on the detrimental impact on my teams ability to grow and succeed (sales team - I'm a manager).

I completely disagree as our contribution is up 200% compared to the year I was off and they had a full time replacement for me, we've hit out targets every month since I've been back (and my targets aren't pro rated they're full time ones) - and my team are all performing well.

I believe they simply just don't want me to work part time.

I am also now pregnant again. They've said I can extend my 3 day working week until I go on maternity leave but on my return I'll be back to 5 days unless I request another flexible working arrangement, but my boss has categorically told me they won't sign off 3 days.

He's made several comments now about how I 'need' to work more days.

I log in on all of my days off and do probably an extra day in overtime that they're not paying me for - always available on the phone etc.

My boss has also suggested that he may not replace me while I'm on maternity leave and he may just cover my role as he has the capacity to do so. My argument is it this is the case then surely having me back 3 days is better than nothing and he could help out on my two days off?

I have so much evidence to show why the trial has worked in actual monetary terms and the happiness and performance of my team.

I've requested an appeal meeting but would really appreciate any advice as this is eating me up to be honest.

I'm 20 weeks pregnant and feeling very upset about it all and have completely lost my appetite, not sleeping due to stress. I feel as though they're pushing me out.

Do I have a case for constructive dismissal if they refuse?

As someone who is applying for Flexible working, its granted if there is no detriment to the business. I'm looking for a different type eg home working a couple of days when it's already proved successful eg Covid restrictions.
Your issue is that you aren't actually working 3 days, you are logging on the other 2, so working and not getting paid, so appears you are demonstrating that 3 days aren't sufficient to do your job.
Are you in an Office all the time? Can you HW the other days or could you ask for flexible hours or start/ finish times?

Bellalalala · 28/01/2023 08:48

blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:41

I don't need to work the extra day - I do it to show willing and be available because I have the time as and when my DH is around which is often but not consistent.

I have no doubt I could do my job in 3 days - my team are all senior and mostly wfh anyway - and my manager has admitted he has the capacity to help out more as he said if we struggle to recruit a maternity cover then he would probably just oversee things himself for a year.

I'm also not saying it's forever - I'd be happy to up my days to 4 after 6-12 months back in the business.

Then why are you doing it and why would they take this into account?

How are you work an entire extra day, with nothing to do?

You have no doubt that you could do it in 3. Yet you aren’t doing at the moment.

But also it’s not just about work. It’s about what’s going on when you aren’t in work. Do your team need more support from other people when you aren’t there? Are they more difficult to manage when you aren’t there.

I have worked in places where, other teams have part time managers and the days they weren’t in, we’re a pain in the arse for other team managers. The teams were performing. But only because of the huge amount of input from other team managers. Not just their own.

Original poster
blueberry23 · 28/01/2023 08:48

@PaddyDingDong two women that I'm aware of doing my role successfully and working 3 days in different parts of the business.

OP posts:
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