Flexible working request rejected - any advice?

[blueberry23]

I have been working 3 days a week on a trial after requesting this on my return from maternity leave.

The trial has now expired and the business have said they're rejecting my request based on the detrimental impact on my teams ability to grow and succeed (sales team - I'm a manager).

I completely disagree as our contribution is up 200% compared to the year I was off and they had a full time replacement for me, we've hit out targets every month since I've been back (and my targets aren't pro rated they're full time ones) - and my team are all performing well.

I believe they simply just don't want me to work part time.

I am also now pregnant again. They've said I can extend my 3 day working week until I go on maternity leave but on my return I'll be back to 5 days unless I request another flexible working arrangement, but my boss has categorically told me they won't sign off 3 days.

He's made several comments now about how I 'need' to work more days.

I log in on all of my days off and do probably an extra day in overtime that they're not paying me for - always available on the phone etc.

My boss has also suggested that he may not replace me while I'm on maternity leave and he may just cover my role as he has the capacity to do so. My argument is it this is the case then surely having me back 3 days is better than nothing and he could help out on my two days off?

I have so much evidence to show why the trial has worked in actual monetary terms and the happiness and performance of my team.

I've requested an appeal meeting but would really appreciate any advice as this is eating me up to be honest.

I'm 20 weeks pregnant and feeling very upset about it all and have completely lost my appetite, not sleeping due to stress. I feel as though they're pushing me out.

Do I have a case for constructive dismissal if they refuse?

I agree with this

I also think some environments can warrant a part time manager but I feel sales should be min 4 days, it's a high pressures job and a sales team would perform better with a full time manager
Where I work you'd not get 3 days, I'm aware of managers on 4 though
We do have admin or more process led teams with pt managers on 3 days or even job shares

Different parts of the business is not the same job as you, maybe they don't log on on a 4th day etc, like others say by being so available and working unpaid you have given the impression you can't do your job in the agreed 3 days, it's no wonder they are saying no

He could also say if he can manage while you are off is your role needed at all

Surely 2 more days would do the team better even if you can do your job in 3? I'm assuming that's what they meant by growth and development. Having someone working 5 days instead of 3 is generally going to be better?

I don't think its unreasonable that they won't commit to something that is still a long way off. They have also now allowed you to continue this arrangement until your next maternity leave.

Personally, I would wait until you are back from your next maternity leave and see how you are feeling, how the business is going etc.

It is a long way off, a lot could change - he may not be your manager , they may not need you in that role or they may desperately need you and you can call the shots, or you may be done with it and want to try something else, who knows.

Just keep your head down and continue smashing your targets until then!

You need to honest about the amount of extra work you've done on your two days off because your Boss will be able to get a print out of your log in and call history (on your work phone and work mobile). They'll have evidence on paper of the work you've done on those days you are supposed to be off.

This is why you need to stop anything to do with work on your two days off, if you want to prove three days is enough.

I might decide that I will cover a manager’s work on maternity leave as sometimes getting someone in, getting them up to speed might not be worth it. It doesn’t mean that I want to permanently cover that role or have the capacity to do so or my own management may not wish to pay me to spend two days a week performing a role junior to my own.

And I completely understand why you thought you were doing the right thing by working extra and being available on non working day and being super flexible.

But unfortunately it does clearly demonstrate that its not possible to do the job in three days.

@blueberry23 Watch out for your mat pay.
Your boss is happy for you to stay 3 days until mat leave. So your mat pay will be based on 3 day.
If they made you do full time now, it'd be based on full time pay (pay in 15th week before due date).
Seems they want to have their cake and eat it.
Cut price mat pay and full time employee after.

I think they have a point. You know you aren't able to do all that's required of you in three days, hence you working what amounts to an extra day to 'show willing'.
You can't compare your output to that of your stand in as they were just covering you. Besides, presumably you were on maternity for most of 2022, during the recovery from the impact of the pandemic, so it likely wasn't a 'normal' year for your employer.
As others have said you're a manager which means you have more responsibility than just sales targets. Who manages the team on your days off? If it's no one then maybe what they're actually saying is they need a full time manager. Maybe your team members have been looking for management support elsewhere, or those above you need your input when you're off with things that can't wait and there's no one willing or able to take on that responsibility (how would you feel if it were you?)

I'd try negotiating to do a four day week instead. That might be more palatable to them. At the end of the day they can say no and would probably have a good case to do so. Don't start a big fight with them just yet until you've exhausted all other options. Also watch out for them saying you can keep your three day weeks until you go off again, depending on your employer's maternity policy that could reduce your maternity pay when you're next off.
No matter what you read on here or hear from friends, I think people need to remember that we have the right to request flexible working, and not just for childcare reasons, but we don't have any right to expect it. All you can expect is your previous/current job or equivalent at the appropriate salary.

So as well as working for no pay on days off you also take calls from staff needing help thus again proving that you are needed to work outside the hours you want to. None of this aids your case.

This is a great point!! If I were you I'd go full time now. Revel in the better mat leave pay then put in a request for 4 days maybe when you're back and then argue it out.

I think all you can do OP at this stage is state you disagree with the overall basis of the team because you consider your team to he very successful and ask them to go through the evidence, what kpis they are referring to and the specific concerns and the specifics, in writing, so that you can fully understand. And then hit them with all your counter arguments. Again in writing.

I'd go for the 4 days, 2 days at home request. In a way they are doing you a favour as at the minute you're working that day but unpaid.

It's also a lot easier to be a bit more militant about your non paid day when it's only one day - at the minute you appear to have the worst of all worlds.

Oh and use your accrued holiday leave - if you can - to do 3 days a week for the first couple of months.

This.

I have no idea why you are voluntary working for free? You can clearly see you need to work at least 4 days yourself, surely?

That depends. If op doesn’t get enhanced pay, then it will only impact the first 6 weeks when you get 90% of your average pay. Op likely earns enough that she already qualifies for the maximum £156 pw.

But that would mean full time from now, until she leaves for mat leave. Which she doesn’t want to do. If she get enhanced may pay, then it may be worth doing. But would need to take childcare etc into account.

SMP doesn’t make a huge difference to employers so highly unlikely that’s the reason they are letting her continue 3 days for now.

But it's not working as you log in on the other days you not working. Sounds like they need a full time manager. You need to get proper legal advice here

I would not advise longer days as you can't predict how your new baby will sleep. Until they are three it's really luck of the draw how much sleep you would get and if you had little sleep I wonder how much you'd be able to work for 10hrs straight.

Congratulations on your pregnancy OP
Something to consider for the moment - your Mat pay will be based on earnings through qualifying weeks so week 17-24 of your pregnancy. Do you have any annual leave to take which will let you work a 3/4 day week until maternity leave starts again? Depending when your holiday year runs to, you could ask if you could use some holiday from next years entitlement if you have to. They may say no but worth an ask.

I'd put the request in again at the end of your next maternity leave and enjoy the additional pay til then.

Fwiw - I really struggled to find the right balance with hours after my maternity leaves. I did FT, compressed hours. Then 3 long days. Then 3 days/4 days. I settled on 4 days a week and 3 days during school holidays which has been the best solution by a country mile.

How did it work out for you OP?

This is really long winded.
I am currently on maternity leave from my branch manager role.
During my pregnancy the company that I work for sold my branch to a new company. Before my maternity leave, I was working for the new company from September- November. During that time I had no support, no line manager, very little response on emails and no pregnancy risk assessment.
I gave birth in November,
They paid me incorrectly and I had to send correspondence to prove it was incorrect just days after to giving birth.
I enquired about flexible working agreements and keeping in touch days. I asked that if I could be considered for a 3 day working week with the rest of the time being available by phone.
They responded saying that is not something they do, but could Potentially do reduced hours over 5 days. This doesn't help me in regards to childcare.
I responded with an official flexible working request application, stating my reasons and explained that late in pregnancy I was working reduced days with no detriment to the business/also they haven't covered my position.
That was 6 weeks ago,I've had no further response.
I've put in holiday for June in January, no response.
They agreed to some paid dates for kit days, they then sent an email at 9pm the night before saying they wouldn't be necessary only to backtrack an hour after the shift should of started and I had cancelled my childcare. This is causing me so much stress and making me feel like they don't want me to return?

Zombie

If you are checking in and working on your days off, whether you are being paid or not, then you are not doing your job in 3 days a week

Also, don't include that your boss can cover you the other 2 days, they employ you to do a job so they don't have to do that. Me covering my team 2 days a week so that they can have a flexible working pattern would be a no from me. Just because I could do it, doesn't mean I want to do it

@Megan1591 start a new thread otherwise you will get responses confused by the original posts. However are you eligible for flexible working request, even so it can be declined.