Flexible working request rejected - any advice?

[blueberry23]

I have been working 3 days a week on a trial after requesting this on my return from maternity leave.

The trial has now expired and the business have said they're rejecting my request based on the detrimental impact on my teams ability to grow and succeed (sales team - I'm a manager).

I completely disagree as our contribution is up 200% compared to the year I was off and they had a full time replacement for me, we've hit out targets every month since I've been back (and my targets aren't pro rated they're full time ones) - and my team are all performing well.

I believe they simply just don't want me to work part time.

I am also now pregnant again. They've said I can extend my 3 day working week until I go on maternity leave but on my return I'll be back to 5 days unless I request another flexible working arrangement, but my boss has categorically told me they won't sign off 3 days.

He's made several comments now about how I 'need' to work more days.

I log in on all of my days off and do probably an extra day in overtime that they're not paying me for - always available on the phone etc.

My boss has also suggested that he may not replace me while I'm on maternity leave and he may just cover my role as he has the capacity to do so. My argument is it this is the case then surely having me back 3 days is better than nothing and he could help out on my two days off?

I have so much evidence to show why the trial has worked in actual monetary terms and the happiness and performance of my team.

I've requested an appeal meeting but would really appreciate any advice as this is eating me up to be honest.

I'm 20 weeks pregnant and feeling very upset about it all and have completely lost my appetite, not sleeping due to stress. I feel as though they're pushing me out.

Do I have a case for constructive dismissal if they refuse?

Surely the "Manager" needs to be present all the time? Who "manages" on the two days you are off? Or can the staff do what they like on those two days? I know that everywhere I've worked the Manager not being in = an easy day which in turn means less production.

Could you suggest a job share, where they recruit someone else to work the two days.

Stop logging on and being available on your days off if you believe it's not needed.

By logging on the other days you are showing your job can't be done in 3 days. Also, why are you doing so much unpaid overtime, stop or ask for 4 days a week

I'm also not saying it's forever - I'd be happy to up my days to 4 after 6-12 months back in the business.

Then use the leave you accrue on mat leave to take a day a week off for a few months.

Who will deal with issues on your non-work days? And don’t say your boss otherwise you’re proving their point.

@Bellalalala

My DS naps for two hours a day, my DH is often home by 2pm too, and I often log on in the evening for an hour or so. So I definitely am doing an extra 7/8 hours. I'd be happy to continue doing this but I couldn't commit to another 8 hours a day working paying for two kids to go to nursery if that makes sense.

My team are not bothering other managers on my days off - they just call me if there's an urgent issue and I've been happy to help out because I've been grateful for the 3 day a week arrangement.

Maybe I've shot myself in the foot for going above my hours!

Contact ACAS immediately for free legal advice. The charity Pregnant Then Screwed will also help you as you may have seen the work they do in the media recently.
You have a strong case, good luck!

@Businessflake but my boss has said he could oversee my team while I'm off for a year.

If he can do this why could he not help out two days a week? Not that he does at the moment, as it's not needed, but you see my point?

That’s the stronger argument.

They don’t have to give you it because other people have it. But you need to be asking why they got it and you are being refused.

It could be that m, it’s not working there either but they have a contract that states 3 days a week. It maybe that the company is different to when it was granted to them but they can’t undo it. It maybe that they have no more availability for part time managers, that more will require huge changes they can’t do at the moment.

But it’s worth asking, why, if others have had it accepted you can’t do it.

Personally I would be countering with 4 days since you already do that.

Perhaps they are actually doing it in the 3 days successfully, which by your own admission you are not. If you were you would log off at the end of day 3 and not be available until your next working day. On the other hand it could be that the company doesn't want to end up in a position where half the managers sre working part time and still logging on on days off to actually get through the work. It leaves the company vulnerable in many ways.

Why does everybody jump to pregnant and screwed. This is nothing to do with being pregnant or having been pregnant. I dare say that the request would have been turned down anyway, because the business wants a full time manager in, as is there right to choose to do so. No idea why you think there is a strong case? OP has actually clearly demonstrated that it is a very weak case as she isn’t managing on three days now and her team have to ring her on her non working days if they have a problem.

I log in on all of my days off and do probably an extra day in overtime that they're not paying me for - always available on the phone etc.

This is a problem, this shows you're not coping in 3 days.

I would say for them to reject it they need to at least back it up with facts though. Maybe that role is best covered 5 days and a job share with someone else on the other 2 days just wouldn't work. I'd go to HR, and want a full written explanation.

I really wouldn’t pursue that line otherwise you’ll just convince your boss they can do without you completely.

I know you say at the moment you log in on your days off and you're there if they need you, in reality that's not a good back up plan for the business. You go on holiday, baby number 2 comes along and you realise you're far too busy to give them your unpaid time, etc etc. That's not a future proofed plan at all for them.

But you're not working three days at the moment.

You might be contracted three, but you're doing at least another day for free in your own time - if I was your manager, that would say to me that you're not managing your time effectively and can't do the role in such condensed hours.

I suspect the other people who are working part-time aren't logging in on their days off and making themselves so available. If you're not working, you need to turn your phone off and not log in to your emails etc.

It’s fairly easy to turn down a flexible working request for a business reason
And by your own admission you can’t do the job in 3 days
I would focus on your pregnancy and put in a new request on your return from Mat leave

What I was saying is that you said you don’t need to do the extra day and you are confident you could do it in 3.

But you need to work 4. Why aren’t you doing it in 3 now? That doesn’t make sense.

If you are purposely spreading 3 days work over 4, that suggests you aren’t being very productive on your 3. So it may look like you aren’t working like you should be.

If there’s an extra 8 hours a week work that you can’t fit into 3 now, then you can’t be confident that you could squeeze 8 hours work in the other 3. How are you going to put and extra 2 plus hours into your working day?

Or your 4th day is performative and doesn’t need to be done but putting the company at risk, by claiming it does.

And you can’t be confident your team doesn’t cause small issues for other people when you aren’t there. Surely things come up that are not urgent enough to call you for, but need support.

But, forget all that, is this actually working for you? Having to be available all the time, working 52 unpaid days a year? Working in the evenings? Yea your 4th day is flexible. But it’s not paid and it’s not, from your bosses point of view, working for the company.

Thanks everyone some really good food for thought here!!

What do you think of my alternative suggestions I've put together to take to the appeal meeting?

3 days for a trial period of 6 months

3 longer days of 10 hours with 30 min lunch - 28.5 hours a week

3.5 days with the 0.5 from home

3 days one week, 4 days the next

4 days a week with two based from home or two shorter days

They have said you can keep doing 3 days per week until stop for mat leave and can submit another request when you are returning

So much can happen between now and then. It's many months, maybe more than a year.

Honestly I would leave it just now and submit a new request when you are thinking of returning.

And I think you are a very long way away from constructive dismissal. But if you are thinking if that then get professional rather than MN advice.

But if its not a part time position then none of them will work.

Oh and I definitely wouldn't be suggesting 10 hour days with little ones!

To go to HR you'd be better getting all your facts together about why this will work on reduced days. If you can prove it works then they are discriminating really by rejecting it without reason.

@blueberry23 I don’t think it’s a case of alternative suggestions, but rather a case of addressing what could be perceived as barriers.

You say your staff currently need to ring you on your days off if they need assistance. Is it that these requests for assistance can wait until you return in a working day without any impact to the business.

You are also working an extra day. You would need to show why this is not necessary but your role and team support can be done purely within the 3 days.

Would there be any argument, that while achieving, your team members individual development in other ways may not be as accelerated with you working 3 days rather than 5.

This is the sort of stuff you need to be able to address, as your alternative suggestions just carry over these issues and that’s the stuff they will throw up as ‘but business needs’ and what you need to be able to refute.

You also say that you answer urgent calls on your day off. If your team need you urgently then you should be at work. What if their urgent call conflicts with your baby/ child needing you? It’s stressful for a team member to need urgent help and you’re not available.

What about proposing a job share?

Remember this is not about what you want or your childcare.

This is about business needs.

There is a precedent of part time working so the company doesn't have a complete ban.

However, you have clearly demonstrated that it's not possible to do your job in three days. The team have to phone you on non working days for urgent things, and you say that you are doing at least an extra day a week.

Therefore it's the worst of all possible worlds. You are not there enough to do the work. And you are not being paid for it.

Three days a week are not working. But actually they have said that you can do that until the start of mat leave.

So for the rest of the time. Work three days. Not at all on non working days. See what you can achieve in three days.

Then on late mat leave submit another request explaining exactly how all the issues will be addressed.

I vote leave it until you come back from ML next time. Your manager may have even moved on by then.

A job share might be more viable. In all honesty 3 days can prove really tricky. I found things much better when I went from 3 to 4 as I was like you and basically doing loads on my non working days. all too often people try to do a full time job in 3 days and it makes you more stressed and leaves gaps. I’d love to 3 days again in theory but I wouldn’t do it unless I could find a jobs share. From the other side, one of my colleagues is doing 3 days and her team is not coping well with it. I see the fall out on the days she’s not there.

If your Boss thinks he can do your job and his together for a year then one of you will be getting made redundant, as this proves that both roles can be done by one person working full time.