Page 29 | Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

scratchedbymycat · 2023-01-27T12:42:59+00:00

My AIBU title taken from this news article: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499 This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe. These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla. They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'. But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad. Where is the safeguarding? AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

Original poster

scratchedbymycat · 31/01/2023 17:18

Did she really do that? That's appalling. God. It makes her recent specific mention of Rape Crisis even more telling then. I wonder if she was trying to head off potential articles in the press reminding the public of that: " ...let me be very clear [nod nod] I agree with Rape Crisis as I said ....] That REALLY wouldn't look good alongside the Isla Bryson, Tiffany Scott revelations. Journalists, please do some digging ...

OP posts:

slowquickstep · 31/01/2023 17:40

LipbalmOrKnickers · 30/01/2023 19:16

A transwoman has never been and will never be a woman. Fixed that for you.

Nothing else needs to be said. True and too the point. Simples

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 18:09

scratchedbymycat · 31/01/2023 16:50

@Emotionalsupportviper Pin down "sex" and which spaces.

In a recent interview on LBC he very specifically referred to biological sex being very important to 99.9% of women. Or something to that effect.

It's the 0.1% we need to worry about.

This is a man who said that talking about only women having cervixes has no place in a civilised society . . .

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 18:16

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 17:00

The starting point is that a trans woman with a GRC is placed in the prison which aligns to their legal sex -

Section 9 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 states that when a full GRC is issued to a person that person’s legally recognised gender becomes, for all purposes, their acquired gender. This means that if you are a transgender woman with a GRC you should be treated in the same way as a non-trans woman. However, following an individual assessment, if they are considered to pose a high risk of harm to cis women, or due to poor behaviour, transgender women prisoners with a GRC can be held in separate accommodation in the women’s estate, or in a male prison. This is similar to cis women, who may be held in the male estate if they are assessed as being so dangerous that they cannot be safely managed in the women’s estate.

I would imagine that the bar will be high for placing them elsewhere, just as it is for violent biologically female prisoners. They are more likely to be in solitary in the women's estate than the mens.

I know that Dominic Raab has said that trans women with male genitalia will be kept out of women's prisons but I'm not sure how that can be achieved for a person with a GRC under the existing legal frame work.

But aside from prisons these men with GRCs that state they are legally female can go anywhere. They are protected both by Sex (female) and Gender Reassignment in the Equality Act.

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Is that quote from a legal document?

I don't like the use of the slur "cis" (and I'm sure it was confirmed as a slur by a judge. Was it in the Maya Forstater case??)

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 18:18

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 18:16

Is that quote from a legal document?

I don't like the use of the slur "cis" (and I'm sure it was confirmed as a slur by a judge. Was it in the Maya Forstater case??)

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It's from this - The prison's advice service

www.prisonersadvice.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/PAS-TRANSGENDER-TOOLKIT-PDF-VERSION.pdf

Yes I don't like the use of cis either.

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 18:19

Sorry posted too soon.

I'm not sure that it's illegal to use cis as a result of the Forstarter judgement though, although I may be wrong?

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 18:22

It probably isn't illegal, but it isn't professional. Might as well call us terfs or bitches.

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 18:29

Oh I know. That document is enlightening though, it actually advises prisoners on how they can change gender in prison, insist on preferred pronouns, obtain clothes of their chosen gender, how to apply for a GRC and how to apply for a transfer!

Of course no man would do this to gain access to vulnerable women !! ??

maddy68 · 31/01/2023 18:47

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 17:00

The starting point is that a trans woman with a GRC is placed in the prison which aligns to their legal sex -

Section 9 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 states that when a full GRC is issued to a person that person’s legally recognised gender becomes, for all purposes, their acquired gender. This means that if you are a transgender woman with a GRC you should be treated in the same way as a non-trans woman. However, following an individual assessment, if they are considered to pose a high risk of harm to cis women, or due to poor behaviour, transgender women prisoners with a GRC can be held in separate accommodation in the women’s estate, or in a male prison. This is similar to cis women, who may be held in the male estate if they are assessed as being so dangerous that they cannot be safely managed in the women’s estate.

I would imagine that the bar will be high for placing them elsewhere, just as it is for violent biologically female prisoners. They are more likely to be in solitary in the women's estate than the mens.

I know that Dominic Raab has said that trans women with male genitalia will be kept out of women's prisons but I'm not sure how that can be achieved for a person with a GRC under the existing legal frame work.

But aside from prisons these men with GRCs that state they are legally female can go anywhere. They are protected both by Sex (female) and Gender Reassignment in the Equality Act.

Show quote history

twitter.com/SqueakinglyJen/status/1620029319136546818?t=XEedn9uvMmAW0tR1xSYUQQ&s=19

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 18:57

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 18:29

Oh I know. That document is enlightening though, it actually advises prisoners on how they can change gender in prison, insist on preferred pronouns, obtain clothes of their chosen gender, how to apply for a GRC and how to apply for a transfer!

Of course no man would do this to gain access to vulnerable women !! ??

No safeguarding worries here, obviously

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 19:03

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

ODFOD.

No males should EVER be in women's prisons.

The fact that he is a rapist is a red herring.

The Geneva Convention is quite clear that prisons should be segregated by sex.

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 31/01/2023 19:06

MarshaBradyo · 31/01/2023 10:52

I just realised this has stayed in AIBU

Even moderation is changing

I've been keeping watch, wondering when it'll be moved, really surprised each time I come catch up on the comments that it's still here in aibu. So yes moderation has changed for the better. I believe this is all about women (despite poppers or sealioners or dog whistlers or straw men saying otherwise) and more women should know.

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 19:06

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 19:03

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

ODFOD.

No males should EVER be in women's prisons.

The fact that he is a rapist is a red herring.

The Geneva Convention is quite clear that prisons should be segregated by sex.

Rapists can be "segregated properly" in men's prisons, where they belong.

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 19:08

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 19:06

Rapists can be "segregated properly" in men's prisons, where they belong.

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Yes indeed.

But for some reason we have posters on this thread who believe rapists should have special treatment and men who claim to be women who do not rape should be in women's prisons.

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 19:14

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · Today 19:06

I've been keeping watch, wondering when it'll be moved, really surprised each time I come catch up on the comments that it's still here in aibu. So yes moderation has changed for the better.

It may well be that the mods have been waiting for this very moment, to be fair.

FOJN · 31/01/2023 19:17

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

Probably best not to rely on twitter for compelling arguments.

ReneBumsWombats · 31/01/2023 19:29

maddy68 · 31/01/2023 18:47

twitter.com/SqueakinglyJen/status/1620029319136546818?t=XEedn9uvMmAW0tR1xSYUQQ&s=19

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

Show quote history

Yes. They should be segregated away from women.

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 31/01/2023 19:38

maddy68 · 31/01/2023 18:47

twitter.com/SqueakinglyJen/status/1620029319136546818?t=XEedn9uvMmAW0tR1xSYUQQ&s=19

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

Show quote history

I realise this might be difficult for some people, maybe you,who knows.
But have you ever tried to think about how you would feel in some situations?
Have you maybe wondered if you were to ever go to prison, what it would be like?

In the recent past with ribboning and dead naming and words that I've put on Facebook and similar, I've wondered what it might be like (also if I'd get crowdfunding, but that's a different issue) to go to prison for my crimes.

Can you imagine how terrified you would be to be locked up, no escape for months or even years with a man, and there would be nothing you could do because officially hes a woman.

Put yourself there, see how you would really feel. Be honest about it. Dont think "well ffs I'M never going to prison, it wont ever happen to me. Because you too could one day find a thing you are passionate about like oh I dont know "womens rights maybe? And potentially break laws that are made up or stupid but still law. It doesnt have to take much effort to break these laws, a few words on a website could do it or a sticker, or 3 ribbons.

FOJN · 31/01/2023 19:53

And potentially break laws that are made up or stupid but still law. It doesnt have to take much effort to break these laws, a few words on a website could do it or a sticker, or 3 ribbons.

In reality you could end up in prison without breaking the law, a faulty software package could put you there.

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/17/falsely-convicted-postal-workers-must-be-fully-compensated-says-committee

lifeturnsonadime · 31/01/2023 20:01

Presumably @maddy68 has no qualms about the fact that this rapist was able to join this course. Or that once rapists are freed from prison they can identify into women's sport, women's bathrooms, rape crisis centres etc etc.

Why do put the gender identity of a rapist above the safety and dignity of women Maddy?

mrshoho · 31/01/2023 20:17

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 19:14

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · Today 19:06

I've been keeping watch, wondering when it'll be moved, really surprised each time I come catch up on the comments that it's still here in aibu. So yes moderation has changed for the better.

It may well be that the mods have been waiting for this very moment, to be fair.

I wonder if one or more mods have left MN? It's definitely a different (for the better) vibe.

TangledWebOfDeception · 31/01/2023 20:22

Certain things have changed in the past couple of years, in legal terms.

SilverGlitterBaubles · 31/01/2023 20:23

Amazingly enough it's usually males who want to invade women's spaces and rarely the other way around.

blubberyboo · 31/01/2023 20:46

maddy68 · 31/01/2023 18:47

twitter.com/SqueakinglyJen/status/1620029319136546818?t=XEedn9uvMmAW0tR1xSYUQQ&s=19

Surely this tweet explains everything. It's not that trans shouldn't be in a female prison , but that rapists should be segragated properly

Show quote history

There are plenty of rapists who haven’t been successful yet.

that’s the whole bloody point of this thread!

RichardBarrister · 31/01/2023 20:51

scratchedbymycat · 31/01/2023 16:48

@lifeturnsonadime

If Adam Graham had already obtained the GRC then he would legally be in a woman's prison as his legal sex would be FEMALE.

I'm not sure this is true though. (Genuinely, not sure). I know Lady Haldane clarified this, BUT, even in the GRC and EA there are exemptions which can be applied the transgender women and I assume that can happen even if they are legally female. The problem is, TRAs demonise any organisation that tries to use those exemptions....

It might help to remember that a GRC allows the holder to obtain a new birth certificate with female on it.

Many Stonewall dictated policies strongly discourage organisations from asking for a GRC and obviously it is a criminal offence to disclose the existence of one without permission (although there are some exceptions but it would take a brave person to take the risk).

So, the prisoner allocation people have to consider a prisoner with documentation saying he is female (I presume that it is not necessarily requested by the prison but some people trying to conceal their sex seem to carry documentation with them) .

His real sex is not recorded anywhere and they may not even have a photo of him (I don’t know exactly how this works). The risk assessment is concerned with his happiness and well-being and his chosen gender identity.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how it is decided which prison a convict should go to and if someone is insisting they are female, how does anyone prove otherwise (in official terms, obviously looking at them would generally provide the answer).