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Original poster

To think that the opposite of woke, is asleep?

265 replies

QuertyGirl · 27/01/2023 12:04

Following on from a conversation with my elderly (but very with it) Aunt the other day.

She stated that she was anti-woke and I asked her if that just meant that she wasn't interested in equality, social justice any more. Being literally "asleep" to this sort of thing, as opposed to being awake or "woke". She definitely is not asleep to that stuff.

Another conversation with a (middle aged like me) friend and we agreed that when woke is used as an insult, it's no different to the old "political correctness gone mad" cry.

So, is anti-woke to be willingly asleep to stuff?

OP posts:
smooththecat · 27/01/2023 19:15

And yes, ‘woke’ has been appropriated from black culture, which makes it particularly problematic that it has now been subverted and is used as a pejorative often towards those very same people. It also functions as a Daily Mail conservative dog whistle.

There’s a good podcast on this very subject here: podtail.com/en/podcast/origin-story/woke-the-word-that-splits-the-world/

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:24

QuertyGirl · 27/01/2023 18:58

I'd trace some of that to Ancient Greece originally.

So, how far back do you want me to go?

Which would you trace to Ancient Greece?

You’re being extremely obtuse but in the event actually you somehow just don’t understand I’ll spell it out:

Your aunt is elderly. Elderly enough to have been, or at least know, people who were parts of these movements to make life better for YOU. Would you agree that you have so many rights thanks to the likes of her and her generation?

Or do you just see her as some old ‘asleep’ fuddy duddy with backwards views?

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:26

Testino · 27/01/2023 19:12

Karen originally is a name but the word has changed to mean other things. People should be allowed to use it the new way. Free speech.

I've never used the word in that way and a family member is called Karen. I'm only pointing out that many people who want to cling onto the new way of using woke as a pejorative, seem to be the same people who want to stop others from using a word they believe shouldn't be used differently.

It doesn't matter if one is someone's name, it isn't the first time a name has been used to mark a group. It's either people are free to say what they want and use words/names how they want or they're not.

I vote for Free Speech for all.

I’d argue that Karen isn’t a group of people at all but a non-existent parody of a non-silent woman. Of course I agree that freedom of speech is important, my point was that the same people who wang on about intolerance and anti-equality are ALWAYS the same people who use this kind of misogynistic trope. It really is irony at it’s finest.

Testino · 27/01/2023 19:29

Karen being a "non-silent woman" is a new interpretation to suit people who like to 'play the misogyny card.'

Same people who like to say others 'play the race card.'

Pointing out the hypocrisy is all.

CheeseDreamsTonight · 27/01/2023 19:31

Woke is asleep as far as I can see: woke is agree with me or I will cry. It is language policing. It isn't equality, or respect or justice or kindness. It is bullying and coercive control and so incredibly damaging to society.

SedatePixie · 27/01/2023 19:42

"Woke" is a brilliant term.

It immediately indicates someone who is probably:
ill-read;
ill-educated;
easy to manipulate;
insecure about their own thought processes so sing what they think is intellectual as they can't figure it out for themselves;
have no sense of history;
comfortable only with barking out terms that mean nothing;
insecure, minds closed to those who have different views;
a bit dim;
loud mouthed;
self satisfied
And just very very very silly people.

Rip Van Winkle was more woke than the majority-if not all-of them.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:42

Testino · 27/01/2023 19:29

Karen being a "non-silent woman" is a new interpretation to suit people who like to 'play the misogyny card.'

Same people who like to say others 'play the race card.'

Pointing out the hypocrisy is all.

I don’t understand what you mean - are you saying that people who oppose women being described as Karen’s are playing the misogyny card? Or the opposite?

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:44

SedatePixie · 27/01/2023 19:42

"Woke" is a brilliant term.

It immediately indicates someone who is probably:
ill-read;
ill-educated;
easy to manipulate;
insecure about their own thought processes so sing what they think is intellectual as they can't figure it out for themselves;
have no sense of history;
comfortable only with barking out terms that mean nothing;
insecure, minds closed to those who have different views;
a bit dim;
loud mouthed;
self satisfied
And just very very very silly people.

Rip Van Winkle was more woke than the majority-if not all-of them.

And also doesn’t engage effectively in debate (lest they be tripped up and shown for their lack of knowledge). On forums they tend to reply to questions with one sentence that often bats a question back to the asker.

A case in point: The OP

Testino · 27/01/2023 19:44

I rarely see people who use the word woke to describe themselves tbh. I mainly see those who attack people for being 'woke'. Where are all these "woke" people?

Happinessandrainbows · 27/01/2023 19:45

SlightlyJaded · 27/01/2023 12:08

No. It's an anti-willingness to be outraged at everything and jump on every bandwagon and cancel everything that doesn't immediately sit well with your immediate and current school of thinking.

I am probably in favour of the same things as most woke young people: equality/social and racial justice and human rights, but I am not in favour of refusing to entertain an alternative view and give someone who disagrees with me airtime. I am also not going to jump on every campaign and hashtag bandwagon without considering the flip side or the deeper consequences of that campaign.

To be the opposite of Woke is 'Open'.

Very well said!

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:46

Testino · 27/01/2023 19:44

I rarely see people who use the word woke to describe themselves tbh. I mainly see those who attack people for being 'woke'. Where are all these "woke" people?

Well for a start a lot of them voted in favour of self identification in Scotland. Which allowed (even if for a short time) a male rapist to be put in prison with women.

StormSeason · 27/01/2023 19:49

QuertyGirl · 27/01/2023 12:04

Following on from a conversation with my elderly (but very with it) Aunt the other day.

She stated that she was anti-woke and I asked her if that just meant that she wasn't interested in equality, social justice any more. Being literally "asleep" to this sort of thing, as opposed to being awake or "woke". She definitely is not asleep to that stuff.

Another conversation with a (middle aged like me) friend and we agreed that when woke is used as an insult, it's no different to the old "political correctness gone mad" cry.

So, is anti-woke to be willingly asleep to stuff?

I literally despair at people who use the word "woke".And when they do it tells me everything I need to know about them.

JoonT · 27/01/2023 19:51

The opposite of woke is calmly and rationally thinking for yourself.

The opposite of woke is not allowing a handful of bullies and fanatics to dictate what you can watch and read.

The opposite of woke is not hating your own culture and history and identity.

The opposite of woke is not being smug and sneering and sanctimonious.

The opposite of woke is being an individual instead of a sheep.

The opposite of woke is defending high culture and defending the literary canon.

The opposite of woke is judging a book purely on the beauty, depth and originality of its content, not exaggerating (or downplaying) its quality because you like (or dislike) the person who wrote it.

The opposite of woke is refusing to allow people to hijack a movement in order to make money.

StormSeason · 27/01/2023 19:58

JoonT · 27/01/2023 19:51

The opposite of woke is calmly and rationally thinking for yourself.

The opposite of woke is not allowing a handful of bullies and fanatics to dictate what you can watch and read.

The opposite of woke is not hating your own culture and history and identity.

The opposite of woke is not being smug and sneering and sanctimonious.

The opposite of woke is being an individual instead of a sheep.

The opposite of woke is defending high culture and defending the literary canon.

The opposite of woke is judging a book purely on the beauty, depth and originality of its content, not exaggerating (or downplaying) its quality because you like (or dislike) the person who wrote it.

The opposite of woke is refusing to allow people to hijack a movement in order to make money.

I've never seen that more perfectly put.
Fantastic, thank you!!

Testino · 27/01/2023 20:02

The word 'sheep' is used by what sort of people? 😉

I've seen that debate on mumsnet a few times. Or I could be thinking about a different forum.

fireflown · 27/01/2023 20:06

The opposite of woke is not being smug and sneering and sanctimonious.
**
Which is exactly what you're being.
**
**

Calphurnia88 · 27/01/2023 20:14

JoonT · 27/01/2023 19:51

The opposite of woke is calmly and rationally thinking for yourself.

The opposite of woke is not allowing a handful of bullies and fanatics to dictate what you can watch and read.

The opposite of woke is not hating your own culture and history and identity.

The opposite of woke is not being smug and sneering and sanctimonious.

The opposite of woke is being an individual instead of a sheep.

The opposite of woke is defending high culture and defending the literary canon.

The opposite of woke is judging a book purely on the beauty, depth and originality of its content, not exaggerating (or downplaying) its quality because you like (or dislike) the person who wrote it.

The opposite of woke is refusing to allow people to hijack a movement in order to make money.

Cringe.

Original poster
QuertyGirl · 27/01/2023 20:34

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl

You really need to read the OP again.

Whatever version of me you're arguing with exists entirely in your head. You have a point of view and a vision in your head of a person who holds the opposite view. You have decided that I am that person, so you put words in my mouth to make me that person.

You're running a one woman show over there Grin

OP posts:
smooththecat · 27/01/2023 20:40

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 27/01/2023 19:26

I’d argue that Karen isn’t a group of people at all but a non-existent parody of a non-silent woman. Of course I agree that freedom of speech is important, my point was that the same people who wang on about intolerance and anti-equality are ALWAYS the same people who use this kind of misogynistic trope. It really is irony at it’s finest.

Show quote history

Did you not know that Karen is a protected characteristic?

PayMoreAttention · 27/01/2023 20:42

Woke and asleep are the same thing

Awake is the opposite

ChristinaXYZ · 27/01/2023 21:06

SlightlyJaded · 27/01/2023 12:08

No. It's an anti-willingness to be outraged at everything and jump on every bandwagon and cancel everything that doesn't immediately sit well with your immediate and current school of thinking.

I am probably in favour of the same things as most woke young people: equality/social and racial justice and human rights, but I am not in favour of refusing to entertain an alternative view and give someone who disagrees with me airtime. I am also not going to jump on every campaign and hashtag bandwagon without considering the flip side or the deeper consequences of that campaign.

To be the opposite of Woke is 'Open'.

That's brilliant "To be the opposite of Woke is 'Open'.".

To be woke is to be closed minded - to talk about social justice whilst being petty, bureaucratic, narrow minded and wilfully obtuse when presented with another point of view. Mostly the woke talk about 'doing the work' or getting 'educated' without doing either and run a mile or shout you down if you attempt to present any other point of view or quote from a book or newspaper they think is not on a mysterious 'approved' list. And yes I've worked with teenagers.

Your Aunt sounds great OP - more power to her anti-woke stance. It is the most genuinely progressive movement at the moment.

ChristinaXYZ · 27/01/2023 21:19

QuertyGirl · 27/01/2023 17:19

Nobody has addressed Poppers Paradox yet.

Some ideas are not tolerable.

You are right of course to a point but who is doing the tolerating? And who is the judge?

I think most woke views are bigotted and regressive - sexist, homophobic and often racist and I think they have done and are doing a lot of damage to women, gay men and lesbians, and ethinic minorities. But I don't think I should have the final say - so I tolerate the intolerable because I believe in free speech.

Unlike the woke who often have a god-complex, think they do know what is best for everyone and that they should be allowed to push their regressive views to the exclusion of all else - because they think they are a good person and therefore their views must be good and therefore anyone who disagrees with them must be 'intolerable'.

You should read The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray and The New Puritans by Andrew Doyle.

XenoBitch · 27/01/2023 21:45

Is woke the new term for 'social justice'. A few years back, people considered 'woke' now, were proudly wearing the 'social justice warrior' badge.

SedatePixie · 27/01/2023 22:30

JoonT · 27/01/2023 19:51

The opposite of woke is calmly and rationally thinking for yourself.

The opposite of woke is not allowing a handful of bullies and fanatics to dictate what you can watch and read.

The opposite of woke is not hating your own culture and history and identity.

The opposite of woke is not being smug and sneering and sanctimonious.

The opposite of woke is being an individual instead of a sheep.

The opposite of woke is defending high culture and defending the literary canon.

The opposite of woke is judging a book purely on the beauty, depth and originality of its content, not exaggerating (or downplaying) its quality because you like (or dislike) the person who wrote it.

The opposite of woke is refusing to allow people to hijack a movement in order to make money.

How thoughtfully and elegant put with the added advantage of being 100% correct.

Those who "cringe" upon reading it are fine examples of Barbarians at the Gate who follow the great heaving, stinking crowd and feel -probably for the first time for many of them-as if they have arrived, are part of something.

For that, they will spout any old shite.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 27/01/2023 22:39

YANBU.
You seem to get called woke if you care about/call out racism, if you care about equal rights for anyone LGBT...
I'm straight, not LGBT, white and British and could quite easily be why should I be bothered about anyone who's not straight, white and married in a heterosexual relationship with two point 4 kids and a stay at home mum.
That's not me though, I know there's different set ups to myself and we should all be equal
Woke is thrown out like an insult, it really isn't.
I'd rather be awake to others than asleep/not giving a shit.