To think that the opposite of woke, is asleep?

[QuertyGirl]

Following on from a conversation with my elderly (but very with it) Aunt the other day.

She stated that she was anti-woke and I asked her if that just meant that she wasn't interested in equality, social justice any more. Being literally "asleep" to this sort of thing, as opposed to being awake or "woke". She definitely is not asleep to that stuff.

Another conversation with a (middle aged like me) friend and we agreed that when woke is used as an insult, it's no different to the old "political correctness gone mad" cry.

So, is anti-woke to be willingly asleep to stuff?

In fact, do you have any coherent or supported comment or opinion about anything to do with this thread?

I am sure I am not the only person wondering.

About the contents of the Daily Mail or GB News? Of course not.

I find myself living with a “woke” teenager. Never on my life would anyone ever have described me as anything other than progressive and liberal. She views me as an evil, right-wing bigot, because I understand that the world is complicated and we can’t solve problems by chanting slogans. I gave up a lucrative career to focus on work that can make a real difference, but that doesn’t matter.

To me, the natural transition of “woke” is to “adult”. It’s someone who is willing to do the hard work of social change. It is someone who understands once you win, you need to be prepared to govern.

every liberal went through that phase of idealism. There is a stage of teenage naïveté where you think believing it hard enough will change the world. Somehow social media has allowed that phase to persist longer into adulthood.

Wokeness is diving people into “Goodies” and “Baddies” depending on whether they hold certain, usually very narrow, beliefs based around culturally dominant leftist identity ideologies. If it is determined that you do not hold the required belief systems “Woke” people often feel justified in shaming, ostracising and threatening. Kindness and good faith is often demanded but rarely given as those who don’t agree are dismissed as “Far Right”or “Facists” and therefore may be justifiably dehumanised/devalued. You may reliably expect to have your character attacked and dismissed as racist/bigot/transphobic/homophobic/full of hatred.

It didn’t start out this way but that is what it has evolved to.

No. About anything else that has been mentioned

But crack on with whatever it is you are doing.

”someone who is willing to do the hard work of social change.”

Yes. I think it was mentioned at least a couple of times that the way to deal with ‘incels’ is more likely to engage with them and discuss the issues with them rather than shut them down and drive their discussion into hidden corners. Exacerbating their isolation.

Well, woke is a verb and to be precise, it is the simple past/preterite of the verb to wake, so the antonym is slept, not awake.

That's basically the point Konstantin Kisin was making in his speech about wokeness that I think was posted earlier in the thread.

You can be the one throwing soup on a painting or glueing yourself to the road for the sake of climate change, or you can work with technology, etc., and try and help with climate change that way. Which is actually likely to help more in the end?

I finally found the link for the 2019 Denton's report. I post this as another example of what is considered 'tolerant' and what has been passed off as 'tolerant' but is actually manipulated. As was that document linked in the quote post. Which leverages Transgender activism with Race and Class to get people on side.

This is from 2019.

www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

It contains tactics like:

‘In many of the NGO advocacy campaigns that we studied, there were clear benefits where NGOs managed to get ahead of the government and publish progressive legislative proposal before the government had time to develop their own. NGOs need to intervene early in the legislative process and ideally before it has even started. This will give them far greater ability to shape the government agenda and the ultimate proposal than if they intervene after the government has already started to develop its own proposals.’

and

‘In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.’

How is this manipulation 'tolerant' or 'kind'?

How is it kind to actively leverage other causes to get yours forced through? How is it kind to manipulate people's concerns over other issues to force team your movement the way this has been done? How kind is it to piggy back others needs to include your political agenda?

Yet, it all fits into this new label of destabilised language where 'tolerant' and 'kind' seems to apply to those who are the very opposite.

Is this 'woke'?

Gender ideology is a campaign to gain power, for men (mainly white men - anyone noticed the real lack of diversity in the trans community - nearly always white men) to gain power in areas they think threaten their power.

They exploit marginalised groups to exploit their successes towards equality. They act in a parasitic way feeding off and then overshadowing its host. They did this with the LGB community, then race, they planned to do it with women’s rights too then got the shock of their lives when when those pesky women said no. It got them angry, and acted in a typical make pattern of threats and intimidation whilst simultaneously framing themselves as the victim and everyone’s bestie basically the play book of an abusive male.

What does woke mean now? Has the meaning changed? Not Tracey Ullman anymore? link

OMG12

Once you see it, it cannot be unseen.

exactly - and it the becomes hard to understand why others can’t see it!

Should've known that this would get hijacked by THAT discussion

Blimey.

I don’t think I have seen an OP on MN complain so much about the posts on a thread, all the while seeming to not be able to contribute any more than snide remarks and those complaints.

It really is entertaining.

I don't think I've seen a poster on MN spend so much time on a thread who's very existence she clearly objects to.

Every other thread ends up being about trans issues. It's bizarre

Spot the op’s agenda 😂

It is hilarious isn’t it?

I mean we are hanging out here discussing different aspects of what is considered woke, because if is a pretty wide topic, chatting to each other, watching Oblomov22’s video and our efforts are chide worthy.

It is entertaining indeed.

I agree with all of this except the first sentence.

Socialism aims to give power to the people. There is nothing leftwing about genderism, the most self-obsessed ideology I’ve ever heard of. It demands exceptional privileges and insists that the people obey its dogma.

and thanks for the link oblomov.

Love to know what my agenda it is.

It would also be nice to discuss something beyond nappies and tantrums on here, without it automatically having Trans stuff shoved it.

It happens with any thread about politics and society. There's one about the Tories which could've been interesting but no, it's about that issue.

You have every right to talk about whatever you like but flooding every other thread with the same topic, is tedious.

Using "woke" as an insult is dangerous. I've seen it used to object to everything to anti-racism to cycle lanes. I suspect that what people are actually saying when they use it as an insult, is STFU.

So you start a thread about ‘wokeness’ and expect that people will not discuss one of the major aspects of so called ‘woke’ discussion?

@Helleofabore but woke doesn't mean pro-trans, which you might think by reading this thread.

Again, it's telling that my first comment on this thread was jumped on by another about women and penises.

I think a lot of this comes back to a succinctly made point by a PP that 'woke' has too many meanings, and has therefore become meaningless.

Exactly!

I don't understand how you can be pro or anti trans. They're people like any other.

I'm more interested in how "woke" is user to dismiss people. Bit like the term "gammon".