Fixed term exclusion, what now?

[SuddenlyViolent]

DD is 8, Year 4.

Until last year she’s been perfect at school, on the school council in Year 3, happy to go in, happy to come home, took part in extra-curricular and was just a generally happy girl. Had friends and playdates and parties.

Then Year 3 started and the violence started.

It’s just me and her at home, no violence but we did leave her dad due to DV so maybe where she picked it up.

She started kicking, hitting and biting other children for no reason. She was moved away from her friendship group into a new group to see if it helped, but it just continued. Its become a daily occurance and no amount of being sent inside or kept away from the other children is helping. School have done friendship work with her and the class and then the year as a whole, they included movement breaks and more access to the toilets for KS2, but it carried on. It's only outside of class, she's not violent in the classroom.

School with my insistence got some general assessments done which I helped pay for (cognitive, behavioural, and a general literacy assessment I think). But they said she’s average intelligence, and average in literacy. The behaviour assessment said she knew what she was doing was wrong but didn’t know why she was doing it.

I then got her some playtherapy counselling via my works health insurance, the counsellor said she wasn’t unhappy or angry or sad. She said she liked school, she liked her teacher, she misses me when she goes to school (which is apparently very normal). She didn’t disclose any abuse or any issues, no bullying, no problems with her schoolwork. The only recommendation was to increase contact with her dad if he was open to it (he wasn’t) and to give her a bit more control at bedtime, so we actually lengthened the bedtime routine to allow her to have an audiobook or podcast in her room after I’d read to her but otherwise fine.

I will add at no point has she ever been rewarded for her behaviour. At school she gets sent inside to sit with the headteacher which she hates and always cries when she's sent, at home I took away extra-curricular activities and her tablet and made her say sorry to the child via her teacher.

I looked ADHD and ASD in girls but neither fits. She’s generally happy, wears clothes and eats everything apart from a small collection of things (tomatos, mushrooms and spicy food), she copes with changes to her routine as well. She sleeps fine, met all her milestones at about the right time. She’s fine with her schoolwork, works independently and in a group well, she loves some bits more than others but don’t all children?

She’s just got her first ever fixed term exclusion, for 3 days. I have no idea what I’m going to do with her for 3 days, and I know that’s the point, to be an inconvenience to the parent, but I’m stuck.

Headteacher has said she tried her hardest to avoid it as she doesn't like excluding any child but it's got to the point that it's all the time, everyday that something needs to change as it's got dangerous.

She will also hit out at me at home, and when I ask her why after she says “I don’t know, I just did it”.

Any ideas where to go from here?

Sounds like you've covered all the bases from what you've written.

At 8 I'd say she has some degree of self control. 'I don't know why' isn't really a good enough reason to hurt other kids.

I hope you find some help, sounds a horrible situation

How much play therapy did she have as it can take a while before a child actually says 'my dad used to hit my mum'

@Spendonsend 6 months worth

She started kicking, hitting and biting children for no reason

There is a reason though and you need to find it. When she hits you at home, what's the trigger? Is it frustration, anxiety, being told no? What's her behaviour generally like?

Oh and did the therapy help? Was her behaviour better during that 6 months?

What’s her behaviour like at home?

@Untitledsquatboulder It can be for no reason at all she starts hitting me, but sometimes it's because she's tired but no other major trigger I can find.

In the classroom she's quiet but puts her hand up when she knows the answer, polite, generally liked by her teacher. It's just outside of class she hits and bites and kicks.

At home she's generally fine, plays indepenently but also lets me join it. She doesn't ever want to play outside with my neighbours DC but I do think she's a bit young yet (I was about 10 when I started "playing out")

@Untitledsquatboulder Didn't make any difference to the amount of occurances of violence either at home or school.

Long shot but could she be hitting early puberty? How much does she weigh ?
What has she said to you about her dad? Has she said anything to her friends?

@Sirzy Fine, she's happy, plays indepentently and with me. Doesn't like going out to play with the neighbours but otherwise happy.

Has she had any physical illness? Its a wildcard, but PANS/Pandas might be worth a quick look.

@StubbleAndSqueak She's on the small side of average so I'd be surprised but not shocked if it was puberty. Weight I'd guess around 25kg but haven't had her weighed for ages.

She doesn't talk about her dad unless someone asks. When asked she says she likes going, likes to walk his dog and see her cousins, and her dad makes the best spag bol but otherwise she doesn't talk about him unless asked. She sees him EOWend for 1 night.

No idea about having said anything to her friends. For obvious reasons the other parents tend to avoid us now - which I get I think I'd be the same if DD was getting hit constantly by the same child.

Sorry I’m a bit confused here.
her father abused you physically but she goes to stay with him?

@Gymrabbit Yep, can thank the courts for that

SuddenlyViolent

I’m sorry but my first instinct is to suggest he is hitting her or she is witnessing him hitting someone else…..

I doubt it's puberty then
Sorry to sound on but when you left her dad, was it sudden? Did she know what was happening and why

Does it escalate around visits?

Might be worth keeping a diary snd recording what was happening before and after.

@StubbleAndSqueak It was sudden but she was a really young toddler at the time so she wouldn't of had much idea anyway. She told her counsellor she doesn't remember mum and dad living together when she was asked about it.

I am well aware that my question is probably going to get me nailed to the floor, but sometimes you need to go old school.

Can I ask when she is hitting and biting other children, do they hit back or just run and tell the teacher. I'm aware that this is the correct response, but maybe if someone hit her back and it hurt her she might be a bit reluctant to do it again.

Yes I'm leaning to this being a new "learnt behaviour"

There has been sufficient investigation and support to rule out a behavioural/cognitive issue, and anything like ADHD/Autism doesn't have this sudden onset.

Has her father got a new partner? Is her father physically disciplining her?

Is she getting frustrated when playing with others and reacting with violence through a learnt behaviour?

@iwannascream She's kept an eye on by the staff on the playground now after the other children started reporting it regularly. No idea if they were going straight to staff or retailiating though.

Obviously she has developmental trauma. She has been exposed to domestic violence. This is very serious and traumatising for a child to experience. She will need years of therapy to make sense of it. Her behaviour is communication. She may be understandably very confused and angry and feeling abandoned as well as frightened by what happened.
I wonder why the adults and professionals around her are not seeing this and having empathy for her. She has endured something extraordinary and catastrophic. She needs a trauma based approach at school and at home.
I am not sure why people are expecting her to be able to control and rationalise her behaviour at her age. She has been exposed irrational and out of control terrifying behaviour.
poor kid I hope she gets the help and understanding she needs.

Sounds like she struggles to play with her peers (could be down to her or them or a combination of the two). So she needs more support at break and lunchtimes, just turfing her out there and hoping it all goes well isn't working. School needs to provide that support.

Babies and toddlers absolutely do have an idea. Domestic violence causes developmental trauma in babies and young children.
jesus this is naive….
the body keeps the score is a book about complex ptsd and developmental trauma in young children.
there are loads of other really good resources and information about the consequences of young children witnessing domestic violence.

So it's just outside in the playground?