Fixed term exclusion, what now?

[SuddenlyViolent]

DD is 8, Year 4.

Until last year she’s been perfect at school, on the school council in Year 3, happy to go in, happy to come home, took part in extra-curricular and was just a generally happy girl. Had friends and playdates and parties.

Then Year 3 started and the violence started.

It’s just me and her at home, no violence but we did leave her dad due to DV so maybe where she picked it up.

She started kicking, hitting and biting other children for no reason. She was moved away from her friendship group into a new group to see if it helped, but it just continued. Its become a daily occurance and no amount of being sent inside or kept away from the other children is helping. School have done friendship work with her and the class and then the year as a whole, they included movement breaks and more access to the toilets for KS2, but it carried on. It's only outside of class, she's not violent in the classroom.

School with my insistence got some general assessments done which I helped pay for (cognitive, behavioural, and a general literacy assessment I think). But they said she’s average intelligence, and average in literacy. The behaviour assessment said she knew what she was doing was wrong but didn’t know why she was doing it.

I then got her some playtherapy counselling via my works health insurance, the counsellor said she wasn’t unhappy or angry or sad. She said she liked school, she liked her teacher, she misses me when she goes to school (which is apparently very normal). She didn’t disclose any abuse or any issues, no bullying, no problems with her schoolwork. The only recommendation was to increase contact with her dad if he was open to it (he wasn’t) and to give her a bit more control at bedtime, so we actually lengthened the bedtime routine to allow her to have an audiobook or podcast in her room after I’d read to her but otherwise fine.

I will add at no point has she ever been rewarded for her behaviour. At school she gets sent inside to sit with the headteacher which she hates and always cries when she's sent, at home I took away extra-curricular activities and her tablet and made her say sorry to the child via her teacher.

I looked ADHD and ASD in girls but neither fits. She’s generally happy, wears clothes and eats everything apart from a small collection of things (tomatos, mushrooms and spicy food), she copes with changes to her routine as well. She sleeps fine, met all her milestones at about the right time. She’s fine with her schoolwork, works independently and in a group well, she loves some bits more than others but don’t all children?

She’s just got her first ever fixed term exclusion, for 3 days. I have no idea what I’m going to do with her for 3 days, and I know that’s the point, to be an inconvenience to the parent, but I’m stuck.

Headteacher has said she tried her hardest to avoid it as she doesn't like excluding any child but it's got to the point that it's all the time, everyday that something needs to change as it's got dangerous.

She will also hit out at me at home, and when I ask her why after she says “I don’t know, I just did it”.

Any ideas where to go from here?

@Spambod that is one possible explanation. There are others.

@Spambod I meant in relation to getting her to understand what was happening, she obviously couldn't be prepared for that in anyway due to her age. In the same way you can't prepare a baby or toddler for a holiday.

I never said the DV didn't affect her.

I'd agree with this. Does she feed back to you at all about what happens at he rdad's, other than him making spaghetti?

My first question would be any pattern around dad’s weekends / your weekends. School should help with this - I have often kept a log for a pupil based on known access arrangements to identify any subtle variations.

Also consider asking the school about alternative breaktime and lunchtime arrangements as an adjustment to keep other children safe - so eg your dd has break before or after the rest of the class. It will be staffing and timetable dependent.

How much exercise does she get in a typical day, and of what type? Aiming for an hour or so of full on exercise, possibly something structured but very physical, would be a good start. Mixed, not girls only, would be best, and ime things like Rugby League and Martial Arts have coaches who are often more skilled with children prone to be physical and can channel that into more productive areas. Similarly, providing her with something like a punchbag, or even a trampoline, at home can be really helpful in using the same kind of ‘energy’ but in a non destructive way. Good sleep hygiene and a good but plain diet, eaten at regular times, may also be helpful at the margins.

I would spend as much of the fixed exclusion outside, highly energetically, as possible, as a good ‘reset’.

Good luck.

I see where you're coming from - as an extension, I wonder if it's specific kids she repeatedly picks on because she knows they won't hit back? We had a violent child in my DS's class but he never botheredy DS because he punched him once in Reception and my DS smacked him one back. That was the end of his violence towards my DS.

“It was sudden but she was a really young toddler at the time so she wouldn't have had much idea anyway. She told her counsellor she doesn't remember mum and dad living together when she was asked about it”.

I think you could be wrong there OP. She needs more therapy before she does you, or someone real harm.

Has she ever asked you why you're not all living together?

Sorry, I cross posted a lot. Definitely worth contacting a DV charity, especially one that deals with young survivors of DV settings, and see if they have specialised counselling available.

That process is likely to take years, and obviously if she is witnessing anything at her dad’s, then her trauma will be ‘topped up’ regularly.

@FriedEggChocolate No just says she likes going, she's had a good time and he makes nice spaghetti.

No new girlfriend or changes to his household that I know of.

@StubbleAndSqueak Never

My two year old was able to identify the location of the DV incident that triggered us leaving ex. Kids can remember and ate traumatized by it.

In the reintegration meeting I suggest asking for support for her on the playground. She should not be out there unaccompanied for her sake and the sake of other children.

I worry that the sudden onset is because she had been recently abused (either herself or witnessing abuse of someone else, which is abuse in itself )

So she has shown no curiosity in why and have ever broached talking to her about why or is that something you feel you can't do?
Sorry to drone on

@StubbleAndSqueak She's never asked questions about us not being together. I've never thought to tell her why we're not together either.

Yep this was my first thought.

What seems unusual here is that she's unable to understand the connection between her actions and the consequence. It doesn't seem to matter how many times she gets sanctions at school, she just keeps doing it again. That makes me wonder if it's a case of any attention, even negative attention being better than no attention at all. She knows that every single time she does it she will be punished ot taken to the head but she still keeps doing it and doesn't even know why. I think it may well be worth investigating that aspect further to unpick this. Usually children learn that the consequence is not favourable. She doesn't seem to be grasping that, unless of perhaps the attention she is getting from having all the teachers telling her off, talking to her, taking her aside, making her sit with head teacher, removing her from other children etc has become almost self fulfilling? I just wonder if most children would have made the link by now unless there was a severe learning impairment?

Sounds like trauma. Sounds like she's hypervigilant and in flight or Fight mode. But I'm not an expert. You could book a private OT for an assessment. Def get school to think about trauma.
This is very personal but did you drink in pregnancy? Could it be fasd?

@PicaK I haven't drunk alcohol since I left university aged 21, years and years before DD was even concieved. I don't take drugs and never have, not even prescription ones.

The difficulty with counselling children is that we have programmed them to tell us what they think we want to hear.
Is she keen/excited or indifferent when she goes to her dads? I think there's alot going on in that little head. How do you both communicate? I'm just thinking out loud now

Agree with some PP that it sounds like developmental trauma, probably from witnessing DV or the exposure to general conflict in your marriage.

This means stress provokes an autonomic response in her that she can't control in the moment. "Knowing" it's wrong won't prevent it and neither will consequences.

You should ask for a referral to CAMHS.

@StubbleAndSqueak Sometimes she's excited sometimes indifferent, never refuses to go though.

We talk through text message, never phone calls bar in an emergency.

Ask her if she has seen anyone (dad) hitting somebody or is someone hitting her.

Children won't necessarily tell an adult about upsetting events they experience. If anything is happening at her dad's, she may well feel it is all her fault and feel too ashamed to talk about it. It's easy for a child to have therapy and still keep their trauma hidden - keeping everything superficial. Or they simply aren't in touch with their feelings and are unable to put them into words.

Her behaviour is telling you something is wrong. And sad to say, the age she is at is often the age when children begin to act out more and show their trauma, when everything has seemed fine in the past. As a teacher, I've seen that many times.

That's good, I agree to a certain extent about getting attention, she's alienated her friends in the playground so the adults will give her 1:1 time when shes sent in.
Out of interest how much structure is on the playground? Any games etc
I too would get advice from a DV charity but would get a special bag for her in mean time to write down any thoughts or feelings shes had that day good/bad, what she liked about her day etc and if she wants to show you that would be lovely but she doesn't have to

The school need to do more to identify her triggers and mitigate the risks. They should be tracking her using ABC or STAR behaviour tracking. They also need to get her on a Behaviour Plan that had lots of room for positive praise and allows her to gain attention for positives, not just negatives.
Other posters are right that she needs support with social times so giving her responsibility or bringing her in 'to do a job' after a set amount of time on the yard so that she had a get-out before becoming overwhelmed and lashing out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the school have logged the sudden change of behaviour as a safeguarding concern. It's one of the signs that abuse is occurring.