Judged by Waitrose

[Prioryfodder]

Waitrose would not let me buy alcohol because I was accompanied by my 15-year-old daughter. To explain, just before Christmas, I had bought a basket of groceries and two bottles of Malibu (actually destined for her older brothers Christmas stockings to make long island iced teas, but that's irrelevant IMO). She had briefly handled the bottles to put on the conveyor belt for me. We then waited some time for the cashier to clear. We were clearly together and frankly we are clearly mother and daughter. The cashier (rather smugly) said she would need ID from both of us to sell me the alcohol. I said I was 56 and she 15, but the alcohol was for me. She - and later her manager - asserted that we both had to be over 18, and to prove it. I asked if they would sell it to me if she left the shop. No. Would they sell it to me if she were 6-year-old? Yes, and I was ''not to be so silly'', said the cashier. My daughter feels she was judged as being an underaged drinker, and I feel judged to be a 'bad mother'. Vote: Yes, you are AIBU, you should never shop with your teenage child, you fool. YANBU, FFS at 56 you should be allowed to buy alcohol.
I am expecting a few cracks about buying Malibu and shopping at Waitrose. Please don't disappoint

You only have to ask for ID BY LAW if you believe the purchaser is under18.

Challenge 21 /challenge 25 are policy, not law and challenge 25 is frankly ridiculous

If you had no reason to believe the person is under EIGHTEEN then you have not committed an offence. CCTV is your best friend and best defence

I don't know I wasn't there which is why I haven't commented on that so stop asking me! 😄

All I can say is managers scared the fucking shit out of us so people are clearly cautious.

I was buying a bottle of Prosecco with my 22 year old daughter , she had no id on her , they refused to sell it to me .

Even if she might look young for her age, I'm guessing she doesn't look like a young child? Who ever thought that people would be expected to show ID NOT to be able to buy alcohol?

@RiktheButler I know but if your job is at risk it doesn't really matter if it's store policy or law. Same difference.

You can cut all the bloody capitals out too, I can read lower case.

The capitals are because it appears half of Mumsnet can't tell the difference between policy and law.

The policy in question - and a poster has stated that it is not policy at all - does not follow the law, and most of the anecdotes on here don't either

@Cocochat yes there are rules around paracetamol you have to be 16 and over and most cases only allowed 2 packets

yes there are rules around paracetamol you have to be 16 and over and most cases only allowed 2 packets

Poundland always used to sell three packs for £1, even when everywhere else had a maximum of 2 packs - not sure if they still do.

Some 40 year olds look a hell of lot younger and generally say yeah I get ID all the time!! Lucky them😂😂😂 I plead with you do not judge anyone who asks you for ID when they are personally responsible put yourselves in their shoes can you afford the £80 fine???! The sack even ????

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll
I think it's store dependent to be fair you can buy more in chemists if you need to . I think it stems from someone taking too many in a car park once ....

The law is that you can’t sell alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 (unless it’s with a meal in a restaurant). In selling the alcohol to OP, the cashier would not have been breaking that law.

Also, technically, technically… Malibu is white rum, with added coconut flavouring.

Actually, a challenge policy is a MANDATORY condition of holding a license, challenge 21 & 25 are considered best practice - And you have to be able to prove it's used, not just a token poster.
Don't adhere to your license and you stand to lose it then no one gets any booze because you need a license to sell it.

You don't have to break the LAW to break the TERMS OF LICENSE allowing you to sell alcohol and risk sanctions - including fines, restricted and losing it.

"Age-verification
The premises licence holder or club premises certificate holder must ensure that an age verification policy applies to the premises in relation to the sale or supply of alcohol.
**
This must as a minimum require individuals who appear to the responsible person to be under the age of 18 years of age to produce on request (before being served alcohol) identification bearing their photograph, date of birth, and a holographic mark. Examples of acceptable ID include photo card driving licences, passports or proof of age cards bearing the PASS hologram, although other forms of ID which meet the criteria laid out above are also acceptable.

The premises licence holder or club premises certificate holder must ensure that staff (in particular staff who are involved in the supply of alcohol) are made aware of the existence and content of the age verification policy applied by the premises.
**
This condition does not exclude best practice schemes such as Challenge 21 or Challenge 25 which require individuals who appear to be under an age which is greater than 18 to provide ID.
**
The condition does apply to companies that sell alcohol remotely (eg online or by mail order). Since the condition requires that identification is produced on request, before alcohol is served, photo ID should be shown at the point of delivery."

www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-conditions-for-licensed-premises-in-england-and-wales-age-verification-and-smaller-measures

Just before Christmas? So over a month ago?

Actually, a challenge policy is a MANDATORY condition of holding a license, challenge 21 & 25 are considered best practice - And you have to be able to prove it's used, not just a token poster.

I get that, but if they're regularly asking people who are 40+ for ID, it does sound like they are being tokenistic. I've never heard of a Challenge 40/50/60/100 scheme.

I got ID’d for ibuprofen in waitrose the other week.

I think it's store dependent to be fair you can buy more in chemists if you need to . I think it stems from someone taking too many in a car park once ....

I suppose it must be - the way they (almost) all switched at the same time made me assume it was a new law.

I think Poundland originally did it, because at that time, they only sold things for £1, so smaller items had to be X number for £1. Only giving two packs for £1 would have made them significantly dearer than most other stores, which isn't really their business model!

It’s called a proxy sale and it’s pretty vague - it can end up being quite discretionary. Did the training at another supermarket, recently.

Although quite why we’re talking about it 5 weeks later I’m not sure!

That, ime, is down to needing to prove you use the policy, as in having written records or CCTV of challenging people purchasing alcohol to prove to the licencing team/trading standards/police (who all can and do use undercover purchases to test policies) that you actually use the policy and are as such a responsible retailer of alcohol, and when there's a visit due and the ID book has tumbleweed blowing through it - a red flag especially if there's been issues around alcohol in the area and the police and council are trying to find out where the issue is starting.
I haven't served anyone alcohol under the age of about 45 in January, at all, I haven't ID'd anyone either, but if someone does come to check, should they be taking my word for it? Because without evidence that's all they have. Luckily I have recorded IDing about a hundred people over Christmas and New Year, which hopefully would show that I am using the policy and sticking to the conditions of the licence, they can fine the DPS if I'm not, as well as insist I don't sell alcohol and also remove my personal licence should they choose. Impacting me and the DPS negatively - even if I haven't broken the law.

They are the ones with the power to sanction or remove the licence and they're not bothered about customer satisfaction or service, their job is to ensure that retailers are acting responsibly around the sale of alcohol, and retailers, understandably, are going to try and keep them happy.

Only one post in nearly 250?

I had this before Christmas except dd is 21 however didn't have Id on her, she ran home to fetch it (it's 2 mins away the speed she runs) and with great delight through it down and demanded a discount (blue light discount). Ironically she had offered to go home for her id to get the discount but I had said don't bother originally. Shop assistant wasn't impressed, it was if she wanted us to not get our wine and whiskey

Probably not impressed because of your DD throwing it down and looking delighted when the cashier was only doing their job.

You can really tell who has never had to deal with age restricted sales.

I had a similar'ish thing in a local shop with National Lottery scratch cards!

This happened to me and my mum but I was 34 and had no ID!

I have no idea how we have such a drinking culture in the UK as it seems virtually impossible to buy any alcohol according to this thread!

You only have to ask for ID BY LAW if you believe the purchaser is under18.

But (and I asked this up thread) how can anyone prove what you do or don’t believe ??

You must ask for ID if you believe the customer is under 18 or 25 or whatever. What if you choose to believe they’re of legal age? What a pointless, pointless policy that causes normal, law-abiding people undue hassle, and causes cashiers massive headaches as they tie themselves in knots trying to make sense of this bullshit.

It’s illegal to sell to under 18s. If you do this , it’s a fair cop. That should be it.

Third child and it was my first experience of this, but I will be guided by you that this is more normal than it felt. I thought all the alcohol-sale posters were about having to show your age up to 25, which makes sense to me... so people aren't buying for a young friend. In answer to some of you, we both did feel judged and uncomfortable. I wasn't rude to anyone on the shop as I was so surprised. And in answer to the questionable family LIIT recipe, I had completely forgotten we had to swap out triple sec and tequila when buying from a small shop on holiday, so we now always use gin, vodka and malibu. Definitely my mistake there!

You must ask for ID if you believe the customer is under 18 or 25 or whatever. What if you choose to believe they’re of legal age?

Don't be ridiculous, the law doesn't ever work simply on what you or somebody else chooses to believe they are....

Oh, wait, erm....