Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

Find me one post where an actual teacher has said ‘my job is more stressful than yours’

@dandeliondaisy "I literally love it so much that I would do it for free"

Well, that's lucky.

Addressing the retention issue by presenting a false narrative (like the current' get into teaching' campaign) is at best useless and at worse deceptive

Retention is the key issue the profession is facing. We have sufficient qualified teachers across the country - the issue is that significant numbers choose not to teach. That is what needs addressing. Presumably, suitably fair pay and fair working conditions would entice a significant number back into the classroom. More importantly, current teachers wouldn’t leave the classroom.

All this background noise non-teachers make about job security, pensions, job satisfaction, not dedicated enough, not good enough, can’t hack it etc etc etc is just that - noise. Look at the figures - recruitment is way below replacement levels, teachers are leaving the profession in record numbers, schools not got the budget to do even a half-arsed job, schools full of staff under the age of 30, kids being taught in increasingly bigger classes and even whole year groups.

Good, quality, free to all education should be the foundation of any civilised country that wants to invest in it’s own future. We have a Tory party investing in itself and it’s cronies instead, leaving behind it a trail of absolute shite for the average person to deal with. We pay for education through our taxes. We need to be demanding answers as to why our children - and us - are being short changed in this way.

We have a Tory party investing in itself and it’s cronies instead, leaving behind it a trail of absolute shite for the average person to deal with.

On that note: www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4730180-govt-investigating-flexible-working-for-teachers-looking-to-hirecapita

Not all opinions are equal and worthy of respect. The opinion that climate change doesn’t matter is a stupid opinion. The opinion that the crisis in education doesn’t matter, or should be ignored because “I need childcare for Maisie”, is a stupid opinion. I spent an hour on one of the many threads on this, yesterday, trying to explain to someone that banning teachers from striking because it affects low paid workers who rely on them will just create bigger problems for those workers when those teachers leave. They still insisted that teachers should be banned from striking.

That is 0000001% of what @noblegiraffe has been doing over the years, and they’ve had endless grief from equally stupid people (who believed that COVID somehow didn’t spread in schools, or that schools were all gigantic places full of social distancing despite pictures being posted showing the opposite - the list goes on).

I’m not a teacher. If a teacher told me that my approach was causing harm to their campaign then I’d stop. I’d go on thinking a lot of people are stupid but I wouldn’t say it. But if it’s just some parents recognising themselves and being upset about it - no, I’m not really bothered. I’m not a teacher - I’m not interested in gently and carefully exploring why an opinion might be being held.

I’m not suggesting that anyone who recognises the education crisis is real, but also needs to work and is worried about that, is stupid. It’s the ones who respond to that by insisting that there’s no crisis (greedy teachers), that teachers can be replaced (no recruitment issue, plenty of better teachers waiting to do the job), or that teachers shouldn’t have the same employment rights as others (they shouldn’t be allowed to strike).

To call people's opinions 'stupid' because they differ from yours, or simply making as hominem attacks on posters should disqualify anyone from being in the influential role that a teacher has.
People struggling in low paid jobs whose tax pays for public services have every right be unhappy at public sector pay rises because most tax comes from the many millions ofow and modersteyrarners than a handful of very rich and only the innumerate can't understand that.
The NEU union letter to members (of ehomI am one) specifically says the dispute is about pay and demanding an above inflation payrise.

ChatGPT seems to be glitching.

Overload I expect

Overload of something, anyway.

There is a massive difference between saying an idea or opinion is stupid, and saying a person is.

@JangolinaPitt Good thing I’m not a teacher then.

@WolfFoxHare OK. In that case I’ll rephrase - I think a lot of people have really quite stupid opinions.

That’s so naive. There wouldn’t be enough time to do the job! And then we would need even more teachers!!

It would appear that you friends are the exception, not the rule.

Sorry meant to post a link!!schoolsweek.co.uk/troops-to-teachers-quarter-of-all-trainees-quit-course-without-qualifying/

No-one I trained with is still in teaching and we're all at least 15 years off state retirement age. No-one has left for a good job, we all do bits of anything to get by just for the sheer pleasure of not teaching. It is not money. It was never the money.

Reasons:

1. workload
2. stress from the above and being undermined/unsupported by management/ofsted
3. behaviour
4. increasing wokeness in schools (pronouns, CRT, aggressively woke students and agressively woke young colleagues)
5. chronic health issues caused by 1, 2, and 3.

If you teach in a school in a tough area or with really weak senior staff then behaviour will be the main thing.

No. 4) is increasingly a problem. Staffrooms in some schools are becoming unpleasant places. If Jeremy Hunt wants the over 50s back at work and the over 40s to stay in work then he needs to get rid of the overly woke HR departments.

I was at a birthday party with reception aged dd today, with the school mums, and naturally the conversation turned to the strike on Wednesday...

My god, the vitriol, spite and insults against teachers, how lazy they are, how entitled, how on earth are they expected to cover a day's work, it's outrageous, disgusting, 'will no-one think of the children' etc etc etc. And then the spluttering about how they dare have an INSET day the last Friday before half term so 'they get another day off'...

They asked me how I was covering it, so I pointed out I am a teacher so won't be in... the whole room literally went silent. I actually felt embarrassed to admit that I was one of those disgusting workshy, greedy, lazy bastards that they had literally been slating for a good ten mins.

I calmly (even though I was fucking shaking with bloody rage!) explained the reasons we were striking, and the fact that schools have no budgets, no staff, and endless revolving door of ECT's (who then swiftly leave), making excuses to 'get rid' of older, experienced teachers (too expensive) and supply, I've got three broken windows in my classroom that have been covered in cardboard instead of being replaced, so my students (and I) are all freezing or being rained on, and there is no money to replace the glass, the fact that I spend my own money on pens/paper/other equipment, the fact that I was terrified of the future for my own child (and theirs) due to the state that the education system is in, and the fact that I could earn more (or break even) working as a delivery driver with less stress than teaching at the moment.

Oh and prior to that, they asked me why they never see me at pick up or drop off, so I smiled vaguely and said 'work' when the reality is that my kid is the first one in and the last one out, that's bloody why. As is the case literally with all my colleagues. Our kids miss out on time with us because we are so busy with other people's kids. Not just in the actual classroom, but all the other shit that comes with the job.

Anyway, long and short of it was, they all then asked if I could have their kids on Wednesday... 🤣😱🤦‍♀️ clearly I should know my place as simply childcare.

Anyway, long and short of it was, they all then asked if I could have their kids on Wednesday

I hope you laughed in their faces. How dare they, after you'd heard what they said?

"Anyway, long and short of it was, they all then asked if I could have their kids on Wednesday..." - dear god ...

I am so glad I don't have to listen to schoolgate mums (and dads) whine about teachers anymore.

I would never, ever go back to teaching, not if offered HUGE sums, not ever.

The problem feeding stress/behaviour/workload/pay is two-fold - we need so many teachers (half a million) that the country will never be able to pay us properly which will put some off joining. Pay is seen as reflection of worth so we are not valued; and 2, as a society we don't know what we want from schools so education gets pulled every which way. There is no common cause anymore between parents, teachers and wider society about what we are doing and why. Many (most) parents think teachers are there mostly to teach reading and mind the kids, and don't care about much else.

Anyway, long and short of it was, they all then asked if I could have their kids on Wednesday...
My DC (albeit older than yours) are joining me on the picket line. You should take all their children down to yours and radicalise them 😁

It sounds as if you are not in the uk, so let me assure you that lawyers here are called much worse than illiterate. They are generally hated. Not saying that other professions being unfairly criticised makes it ok for teachers to be, it doesn’t, but this notion that teachers are somehow unique in being vilified is not true.

These threads are a good illustration of why people are leaving education in droves. Who would want to be thought of in these terms? And yeah, compared to other professional salaried jobs with a huge expected contribution of your own time, it’s not well paid. Just to get through my A level marking would be around 11 hours on top of my 22.5 hrs pw contract, and that was just the start of it.

Yes, I’m not British, but very familiar. I don’t believe lawyers are as publicly reviled as teachers. There are not countless threads on public forums, for example. People might gripe about lawyers, sure, but the cultural ill-will towards teachers is something else.

I’m a lawyer and there’s perhaps a general sense that we’re all charging £1000 an hour helping criminals get away with murder - some people do dislike at least those lawyers (and may assume that’s all of us).

But we’re respected as a profession in a way that teachers simply are not. The example given above of how people talk about teachers, I hear those from my sentiments all day long from my colleagues and parent friends. They genuinely despise teachers and hold them in contempt. I’ve lived in a country where teachers are respected and the difference is mind-blowing. It is different.

@georgethegeranium really nails what I’m talking about with people being stupid/having stupid opinions. They despise the same people they’re desperate to look after their children. It’s mind-boggling to me.

I’m sorry but your second paragraph seems to contradict your first. Lawyers are ‘respected as a profession’ but also there’s a ‘general sense that that we’re all charging £1000 an hour helping criminals get away with murder’? Ime there’s much more of the latter and very little of the former. Unless by ‘respect’ you mean ‘thought of as earning well, clever and high up the social ladder’, because there’s that, but to me that’s not respect.

I’m also surprised that, as a lawyer, you’ve worded your first paragraph to mean that there really are lawyers charging £1000 an hour to help criminals get away with murder. Did you mean to do that?