Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

Do some people go into teaching, who may not be willing or capabale of dealiing with a high pressure job

These people don’t normally pass the PGCE (or used not to). If they do, they don’t last long. It does take a very particular set of qualities to deal with the unique pressures of teaching (which, BTW, I’m not saying are worse than in other jobs, just different. For example, dealing with teenagers and making them do things they’d rather not.)

Work to rule would impact parents less but kids more, whereas striking has minimal impact on kids but I can see is inconvenient to parents. I completely understand it’s difficult for parents but you can’t criticise the impact on kids and then suggest working to rule.

I don’t understand the poster who said leaders need to push back, what do they think the striking is? There really aren’t many other options, telling the government they need more money is pointless, they didn’t even listen to the catch up tsar they employed to advise them!

With all due respect...what? Is teaching not a high pressure job? I have 12 years experience in a primary school and I assure you, it is pressurised. Not, before anyone jumps in, more pressurised than any other job, but pressurised nonetheless. The majority of teachers who stick it out do so not because they are workshy and can't cope in a real job, but because (believe it or not) they want to make a difference and believe in the value of education.

Regardless, my original point remains. The workforce is effectively rejecting teaching as a career, so something is broken. Let's fix it rather than attack the people trying to make a difference.

Maybe re read my post, I am not saying it is not high pressure?

My apologies if I misunderstood. But surely the point is...if benefits, pay and conditions were better, then more high quality entrants, able to cope with a pressurised environment, would be attracted to teaching as a career? Right now, they're not, so we're trapped in a downward spiral until something changes.

You can put up with the shit if your rewarded for it.

It used to be public sector workers (not just teachers) were paid poorly compared to private sector, but the pensions and job security made up for it.
now it’s the worse of all factors.

Most are there for at least those hours. More like 8-5, sometimes later. If any leave within an hour it’s probably to pick up their own children, cook their dinner and get them to bed, before resuming work until the early hours of the morning.

Spreading out the work over there tear wouldn’t work because a lot of it is reactionary. We can’t just plan everything weeks or months in advance because we react to the students in front of us and use assessment to inform our planning.

On open evening or parents’ evening days we do the normal school day and keep going until 8/8.30 and our normal activities are still sat there waiting for us. In secondary, if you teach all the year groups, these evenings can be quite frequent.

There is a wide range of types of teachers and work loads are different. For example, some only teach subjects at A Level or GCSE that have small cohorts, whereas others teach core subjects like English, with 30 in a class writing extended pieces that all need marking for a deadline.

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!

@Changechangechanging Quite. It’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t care. @noblegiraffe has spent years posting threads to try and get the message out there but all they’ve had is grief from parents arguing with them. Why parents don’t care about this is beyond me but then a lot of them don’t care about climate change either. I think a lot of people are unfortunately really quite stupid.

I support the teachers striking but I could also write a lot to critise the system and the awful culture against parent and woe is me side of some schools/teachers.

However, I support the strike and want to remind people how utterly brave strikers are. They may face the wrath or displeasure of fellow colleagues, be worried about their job having striked.. all the disruption.

It will not have been something they do lightly and will have caused much anguish..

Whilst I'm sure I could find another teaching job (although arguably not on the same pay scale I am now, because I am too experienced and too expensive), I am definitely at risk of redundancy because of all the increased costs schools are facing. The last round of redundancies, which cut teaching staff by a third, were only 4 years ago.

Not only long hours that lead to stress...school violence on the increase
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/teaching-union-calls-better-records-29069162.amp

Do you think, just possibly, implying that people who have different opinions and different priorities than you are ‘quite stupid’ isn’t the best way to change their minds? I agree that schools are massively underfunded and are forced to focus way too much on box ticking exercises, and I’m very concerned about it, but I still found your post antagonising and insulting as a parent.

Do you actually want change or do you just want to complain and slag off parents? Because from your post, it looks like the latter. If you want to win hearts and minds, don’t call parents thick.

Do you think, just possibly, implying that people who have different opinions and different priorities than you are ‘quite stupid’ isn’t the best way to change their minds?

Quite. Funnily enough, being told my views were ill-formed doesn't exactly make for an open and respectful debate. I have a lot of respect for teachers, they do a great job and if you asked them, they'd say I was a supportive and easy parent.

But some teachers seem convinced that their job is far more difficult than everyone else's. It isn't the case. Reading the threads from NHS workers shows this. Yes, it's not a race to the bottom but insulting people isn't the best way to get them onside.

It is about so much more than pay ...they may be striking about pay but the truth is teachers are not legally allowed to strike about the lack of funding that schools receive which is what these strikes are really about!

School budgets are being decimated by the government…electricity, gas, oil, food has all gone up with no extra money given to cover these bills, this money has to come from the existing school budget.....:there is no money in school budgets for support staff for ALN children, no money for interventions to support vulnerable children, limited availability with the council and NHS for the children who need to see Ed psychs, speech and language, physio, counsellors...no money for glue, books, reading books, resources to teach science investigations, resources to teach art, design...to give children the education they are entitled to.

They want the public to wake up to the reality of what the government are doing, they want the public to stop believing the spin stories they're being fed that they are money hungry, and they want the public to stand up and make their voices heard and protest to the government on their behalf about the lack of funding education receives because legally they cannot do it so they need the public and parents to do it for them.

@noblegiraffe
Just popped on to offer my unwavering support to you and your colleagues.
My DC adore their teachers as do I. Please don’t let the other views get to you, you can’t argue with stupid.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see teachers are underpaid and undervalued.

And that's fair enough, I'd support those things. (Just that the dismissive insults don't exactly encourage people to get on board.)

I taught for 20 years. In the end I left because it was inflexible around my family and, compared to progression in other sectors, poorly paid. It was a fun job to do lots of the time, but hard truth is, current climate, you can work a lot less hard and be paid a lot more money doing something else.

Dismissive insults towards teachers, of which we have seen a number on this thread alone, don’t encourage people into teaching or motivate them to stay in teaching either.

I’m sure they don’t.

But your comments were badly informed. I said 'understandably' because it's not your role to know about a sector in which you're not involved. Job security is not what it used to be, (nor are pensions) especially in academies and your suggestion that 'changing the narrative' would help recruitment is meaningless if we don't address the issue of retention. All that would do is provide a raft of young, inexperienced teachers who would eventually find out the truth.

But your comments were badly informed. I said 'understandably' because it's not your role to know about a sector in which you're not involved.

Indeed, hence why my point was that teaching isn't necessarily more stressful than other jobs. I'm not saying that my job is more stressful than everyone else's because I haven't worked in every sector.

The comments about pensions and job security came from conversations with friends (one's a head, one's a bursar, one's a teacher). That was their view, rightly or wrongly.

@dew141

We seem to be at cross purposes. Me and my husband have worked other jobs and we personally find teaching the most stressful by far - perhaps it's the combination of cognitive demands, the relentless admin that could be a full time job, the performative nature, the caring and emotional responsibilities, the shifting agendas, the physical demands (try getting up and down in early settings every two minutes past 50 or protecting yourself from violence - the police don't do instant response like they do for NHS staff) or the constant opinions of the badly informed - I wouldn't dream of telling an accountant or a butcher how their work practices could be improved. There may be more or equally stressful jobs, and if they're struggling to retain staff, they need to deal with it as well. Addressing the retention issue by presenting a false narrative (like the current' get into teaching' campaign) is at best useless and at worse deceptive.

I am a teacher! I love my job. I literally love it so much that I would do it for free (if I was rich and could do so, which I am not)! I went to bed last night after reading this thread feeling sad at the state of some of these comments. But I didn't come on to defend teachers, I genuinely feel like i shouldn't have to do that and quite frankly am not going to beg for the status we deserve.

As I was going to sleep, I thought about a little boy in my class, who is 5 and suffering from anxiety related issues, he is struggling to make friends, has some difficulties with understanding emotions and behaviourally is challenging. He was in meltdown because the class had a rare moment for 'choosing time' (unstructured) so I asked for a hug, and he lay in my arms like a baby for 15 mins. My heart melted. He just needed that sense of reassurance. I then set him up with some buddies who helped him to do a puzzle. This is why my day my special. That moment of changing his day, helping him, giving him strategies and supporting his needs. They are Year 1, and had choosing time, which by the way they get only every other week because of the pressures of the timetable, results, progress, accountability at all times for any child who may be falling behind, reasons/support/meetings, the proof that we are extending the high achievers, support for new English speakers and endless paper trails. How sad is that? We have no time for the free play sessions that they so desperately need! 30 mins phonics a day, a maths lesson, an English lesson per day. Then French, Music, Computing, Handwriting, PE X2, Art/DT, PSHE, RE, assembly x 2 each week, reading on top. Children are missing their Art lessons to do catch up sessions and the creativity is stifled! Something has to change.

Aside from that, I was in school at 7.30 photocopying sheets, setting up interventions with my TA for the high achieving children, EAL children, SEND children for each day next week, and then ensuring my resources were set up for a multi sensory maths lesson, l earnt and taught a dance for a whole school assembly (so fun!), didn't have a drink til 10.30 when on break duty (no problem as I have two tiny children so no change there), followed by lunch club, English lesson where they wrote stories so then had to mark those and give verbal and written feedback to the FIVE YEAR OLDS for them to do their reflective learning time, where they make 'purposeful' improvements to their written work (that they can barely read back to themselves). I heard every child read followed by computing (coding), have you ever helped 30 children log on let alone access and complete a coding course (?!) and then PE where someone vomited on the floor. I then met with a parent after school to discuss playground issues. In the same day I had to mark the homework and give out new homework, change 30 reading books and also meet (and be observed teaching) with 2 outside agencies to discuss a child with SEND to get the help he needs. I was observed by a student teacher and then met with him to give him suggestions on his phonics lesson he will teach next week. That's not including sorting some admin for our progress results plus a trip we are doing in a few weeks. But it was Friday so I managed to get out for 5pm! Hurrah. And I actually had a lovely day! I just wish the pressure on the children would ease off a bit, luckily I had 14 years experience and have the back bone to say 'sod off' if I was ever reprimanded for doing a sneaky 'show and tell' session or a little 'Just Dance' brain break....!

(Yep I asked for a hug, FIRE ME!)