Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

Not meaning to sound at all snide here and I’m sure lots of people don’t understand why it’s not a standard job in terms of hours and holidays. But you would understand if you were a teacher. I genuinely have to work about a 70 hour week just to cope with demands. Despite enjoying the job itself it’s a miserable existence in terms of workload and I only live for the holidays really.

Yeah, fair, I didn’t express that well at all.

What I meant is that we’re generally in my experience thought of as intelligent and hardworking - it’s a profession that’s aspirational. Whether or not you’d class that as respect, I don’t find that people generally do not consider that they could do a lawyer’s job, whereas everyone thinks it’s easy to be a teacher.

I did not meant to imply that there are actually lawyers in existence who mirror what is reported in a Daily Mail headline. Clearly I don’t believe that. Plenty of people do think such lawyers exist and further that all lawyers are like this - sometimes very little recognition of the broad spectrum of legal services and practitioners.

My overall point is that no, I do not think lawyers are reviled in the way that teachers are, but experiences may vary.

I find that people generally do not consider that they could do a lawyer’s job.

Sorry, that should read as above.

Fair enough, I think experiences do vary. I take your point about people generally thinking teaching is easier than it is.

I don’t believe lawyers are as publicly reviled as teachers. There are not countless threads on public forums, for example. People might gripe about lawyers, sure, but the cultural ill-will towards teachers is something else.

That's the thing. The teacher griping is all-pervasive and its everywhere. From government ministers to the parents at the gate. It's every day.

At one point some years ago. I had to change channels on my radio alarm clock , because every single morning I'd wake up to hear how the government thought we were all rubbish and needed sorting out.
There's a bit less of that now, but thanks to those days when parents were all listening to that every morning and evening too, now everyone feels that we're due their scorn and we're all useless.

If we come across as defensive, it's purely BECAUSE we hear ourselves and our job misrepresented nearly every day.

...also, it's hardly coincidence that kids' behaviour has become increasingly poor after a couple of decades where it's become the norm for people to sound off about how teachers have an easy life, are rubbish, and get far too much holiday.

If they hear their parents talking that way, then why would they respect us in the classroom?

@saraclara Yes, this. The only time I see that happen to lawyers is when there’s a court case that the Daily Mail is upset about. It’s not incessant. I was in a taxi for literally 10 mins this week and some radio channel was going on and on about how all the teachers should just be sacked and people who “want to do the job” should replace them. I assume it was a caller rather than the DJ but that kind of brain rot is just accepted in this country.

Don’t miss a chance to start up the bells and town crier for another public shaming, will you?

FYI, law is pretty diverse, in a way teaching is mainly not. Yeah, there are city lawyers being paid by Russian oligarchs etc. and there’s also the nuts and bolts of conveyancing etc. What the poster is saying is that some people are a bit iffy about the former (with some reason) but there are not calls to put lawyers in the stocks in the town square just yet.

Yes, I’m not British, but very familiar. I don’t believe lawyers are as publicly reviled as teachers. There are not countless threads on public forums, for example. People might gripe about lawyers, sure, but the cultural ill-will towards teachers is something else.

I worked in investment banking. I think that's probably near the top of the reviled list. We all personally brought down the UK banks and are responsible for the global financial crisis.

No matter how many times I try to explain that it covers a multitude of activities and my area was entirely different, it's always back to me bankrupting the country.

(My son's history teacher is an ex City lawyer.)

@fitzwilliamdarcy I can’t argue with that.

I worked in investment banking. I think that's probably near the top of the reviled list. We all personally brought down the UK banks and are responsible for the global financial crisis.
Yes you hear a lot of that in this type of thread with peoplle sounding off about the evil bankers.
If conditions are intolerable, withdrawing labour for one day is pointless and peevish.
Just withdraw labour permanently by finding another job with comparable package and better conditions rather than perpetuating those workload demand by coming with them. All those ECTs who leave immediately or part way throufh might well feel conned that the people working on that sector have let it get to that point martyring on and accepting the additional demands.
Just leave and walk into that better job you are capable of and leave the 'vacancies' problem with the government. They can always re-hire you on better conditions at a pay rate you are worth when they realise you were right all along...

I have literally no idea what your first sentence is on about. How have I shamed anyone?

Firzwilliamdarcy responded directly and acknowledged they hadn’t expressed themselves well. See above. They can speak for themselves perfectly well.

’FYI’, I know the law is ‘pretty diverse’. I’m a lawyer.

Well, that’s the stupidest suggestion ever. I guess doctors, nurses, paramedics, railway workers, driving examiners, etc, should do the same - resign on mass instead of striking?

How about a strike of indefinite duration? That’s closer to your suggestion. Think that’s a good idea?

Still, voting for Brexit then withdrawing labour is kind of what a lot of people have actually done, according to the Government, which is busy trying to coax people out of early retirement.

Just withdraw labour permanently by finding another job with comparable package and better conditions

What so many are doing, some with regret as they may love teaching. Others may stay on because their love for the job and concern for their pupils marginally outweighs their dissatisfaction.

But whatever any individual’s reasons, the plain fact (once again) is that there’s a recruitment and retention problem.

But not enough people since conditions have not improved. And the ones who remain collude with employers by taking on more and more work so ECTs/troops etc coming in see what the existing workers expect them to do and quite rationally decide to leave rather than join the martyrdom.

Well, obviously, because people with a conscience have always been exploited by those who are conscience-free. Anyone who works in a people-focused profession is vulnerable to this.

At my school there is a lot of pressure to run trips. Those who choose not to get snide remarks from other teachers - not management-- and they then moan about the time they are giving upon their holidays to run trips. So.. just don't. Same with other extra work - just politely say ' that doesn't work for me' and let management deal with it.

But not enough people since conditions have not improved.

Ok, you try resigning and see if it tips it over the magic number.

Thanks in advance.

I mean, Jangolina says she stands up to her management by refusing to complete tasks and that's an appropriate response to an unreasonable workload because it means she, personally, gets out of doing it. Other teachers stand up to the government by refusing to complete tasks to try to get better conditions for all teachers and that's just wrong and they should quit instead. Obvs.

Not sure why she's in a union when she doesn't understand joint action.

Rolling over and agreeing to excessive demands makes more difficult for other workers by normalising it.
When employers can see you are doing a good job in the classroom they will not want to lose you. Simple really if you have any backbone and actually enjoy and want to do the core job.

“Let management deal with it,” means don’t run trips, of course.

Rolling over and agreeing to excessive demands makes more difficult for other workers by normalising it.

So as an NEU member you'll be going on strike, then?

That doesn’t work, unfortunately, when your employer is funded by Government, Government is elected by parents and parents think schools are crap because they don’t do enough for their children. It is easy to see why it rapidly becomes opaque who exactly you are supposed to be working for and why.