Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

That was a big read!

The thing that stands out to me is that actually people don't tend to know what teaching entails - understandably, I have no idea what engineering entails, with the difference being everyone went to school once and thinks they have a good idea.

To add to a previous posters excellent explanation of why that fire of london lesson wouldn't cut it (and dear god the curriculum requirements of primary sound utterly insane) I would point out that much more than learning content is going on. Even at secondary we would be simultaneously teaching children how to read effectively for comprehension, how to pick out key information and extract evidence to support your point and how to 'explain' rather than just 'describe' and how to assess information for reliability by examining the origins, nature and purpose of the source or interpretation. Whilst we have curriculums stuffed full of massive amounts of knowledge content the real business of teachers (in my opinion and in my subject area) is teaching kids how to learn and the skills required to understand, evaluate and analyse information for example.

Add to that that even at secondary in ks4 many of the kids (not even necessarily with sen) will still struggle to read the worksheet (or refer back to it and scan for the information needed after having read and discussed it as a class with questioning throughout) or construct a response. That's before you even get to specific sen kids, EAL students and behaviour management caused by everything from going through a perfectly normal really phase of being a little shit to having been raised in a household with very serious levels of domestic abuse and neglect their whole childhood with SS being fully aware but never having been removed or the situation changed and therefore suffering from attachment disorder, ptsd, developmental issues etc etc.

The classroom does not look like it used to and nor does teaching. We don't impart information and set them off working - that would be great if we could (and if we wouldn't fail observations personally or inspections as a school) but it would not even be viable in any way shape or form. I teach mixed ability so maybe there are top set groups in setted subjects who can do this. I teach 22 classes and have one group who are almost capable of an occasional lesson like that with a good back wind and timetabled early in the day.

And what's a "normal" job? The average salary in the UK is way lower than 44k. To an awful lot of people, £44k for 42 hours would be amazing. It's not a "high" salary but it's a lot higher than the majority of parents in most schools, I'd guess. Especially since you almost certainly don't have any holiday clubs to cover, if you have primary school children.

Teaching is massively awfully stressful, but I wonder if a lot of the issues might be fixed if funding was increased for schools, not for teacher salaries, but for more TAs, better facilities and better resources.

Just to add - teaching 5 lessons requiring that level of focus and attention and 'on'ness and being responsive to all of those needs is really, really stimulating but also very exhausting and draining. Meanwhile you've been sent 50 emails requiring responses, changing seating plans, a request that you call parent x, send work for student y who is in internal exclusion etc etc to face at the end of that before you can even think of planning or marking and maybe some pointless meeting or cpd session too.

It's the mental load for me. It's so rewarding yet so draining to teach and that would balance ok if it was the mainstay of your job but in reality all the other shit takes up so much time and also requires complete mental focus. It just isn't viable. Other jobs I've done have sort of built in down time where you are left alone and can zone out a little bit or take a toilet break or switch tasks to something less demanded if you can't concentrate.

Also well done to the partners of teachers on this thread. It must be a nightmare. If someone asked me what I fancied for dinner/watching on tv etc at the end of a day I would be quite likely to bite their head of because I just can't make another decision or take responsibility for anything else. Luckily I'm single.

This was a very useful and informative read for a non-teacher like me.

Bear in mind that 44k is someone at the top end who has worked on average for about 12 years with successful results and performance management every year and able to prove they make significant contributions to the whole school as well as their own job.

It's not a 'what teachers get paid' figure and very, very many people don't make it 12 years or only do so by going part time therefore being paid less. Hence the shortage of teachers.

ChickenDhansak82
And all those holidays? Let's do some maths... A full time secondary teacher who does GCSE and A Level will work around 50+ hours a week in term time. In holidays it is exam marking and updating schemes of work, so about 5 hours a week average.

Why are they working 50+ hours a week during the summer term (during/after GCSE and A-Level exams)? If they updated schemes of work in 'gained time' they wouldn't need to do much in the summer holidays.

And what's a "normal" job? The average salary in the UK is way lower than 44k

But the average salary for a job that requires a degree plus a further professional qualification will not be way lower.
And £44k is not average for a normal class teacher. I retired on the highest possible class teacher salary which is maybe that now. It was just about £40k then. It's a lot harder to reach that top level now, then it was when I got there though. You have to jump through hoops that your HT will want to avoid you clearing, as you will then cost them more. Why pay an experienced teacher £44k when you can get nearly two fresh and new ones for that?

Partly because they finally get some time to pay attention to their KS3 groups and year 10s and 12s Clav and catch up with the massive marking and assessment backlog for them that's had to be put off to cope with marking a gazillion mock papers and exam question practice and trying to get their exam groups on track.

There is always stuff you should have done already to do. There just isn't a point where you've cleared your plate. Come the first day of September you get given a load of class lists and a timetable and investigate all of the special needs and issues you need to know about and plan for the next 22 classes within a day before you start teaching (if you're lucky enough to get given two hours of inset to prepare and not just be talked at for the whole day in the hall).

It doesn't stop.

We can argue on here until the cows come home about whether teachers' pay scales and pension entitlements are sufficient but the crucial thing at the end of the day is whether people are applying to train and staying in the job once they see what it's like.
It would seem to appear that they're not! Ergo, the benefits aren't tempting enough. End of debate. It's YOUR kids who are going to suffer due to this. Either you think their education (and therefore those who deliver it) is important or you don't. But slagging the profession off on SM because you're harbouring some long-held resentment for being told off once in Year 9 is not very productive, is it? Bottom line is, there is a dire shortage of teachers and everyone needs to get behind a campaign to sort it out.

This!

@JangolinaPitt We've lied to protect the system for too long. Wheres it got us? The veil was truly dropped during Covid lockdowns when parents were screaming for provision that most schools just didn't have the technology (and associated training) to provide. It IS a shit-show and now you know but because kids are now back on the premises, you can forget about it.
Until the next time it's brought to your attention.

swallowedAfly

During gained time, teachers are only required to undertake activities from the list below, which were previously listed in Section 4 of the School Teachers’ Pay and Conditions Document:

[First on the list] -

developing/revising departmental/subject curriculum materials, schemes of work, lesson plans and policies in preparation for the new academic year...

www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/conditions-of-service/teachers-working-hours/directed-time-england/gained-time.html

Come the first day of September you get given a load of class lists and a timetable and investigate all of the special needs and issues you need to know about and plan for the next 22 classes within a day before you start teaching...
It doesn't stop

It clearly stops in August if you are sent everything on the first day of September.

When I was at school, children did as they were told and teachers had control of a class. Nowadays little Billy is told off and mum stomps up the school for a barney with the teacher, so no wonder no one wants to be a teacher, same with doctors and nurses, people used to be nice to someone who was trying to help them while they need medical aid, nowadays medical staff get assaulted by drunks and people they are trying to help. People nowadays are too entitled and rude and have no respect for anyone!

….no you have to delay starting work until 6:30 when the parents have left.
and if you are primary that could be 30 maths books, 30 English books, topic… You have no clue.

You have a shit load of back log of work Clav so you do it. What's difficult to understand? You think we just go fuck years 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12? I don't know why I bother.

Yes it stops in August during our holiday if we are very disciplined and don't work. How much work do you take on holiday with you?

This is the sort of lesson you leave/phone in for a TA/supply teacher.

Get observed/inspected delivering a lesson like this and you should be having a discussion with the head the next day.

Also….. Is this a History lesson or an art lesson? Painting at the end isn’t part of a History lesson. It doesn’t add to knowledge about the FoL, doesn’t increase understanding of how and why it happened. Many schools do this sort of thing- making castles, Viking Longboats etc. Not considered good practice.

So why are lessons planned?
Some schools buy in lesson plans, others have pre-written templates - with varying degrees of prescription.
But every class is different, what worked for one won’t with another. An odd comment may introduce other material, take the lesson on a better route. pupils react differently one day to another.
A lot of teaching is thinking on your feet, being prepared to adapt your prepared plans.

ie I taught RE as a timetable filler. One pupils response to a question told me he was a Ugandan Asian - he didn’t know this. Complete about turn and a discussion about dictators, Idi Amin, oppression, sanctuary etc. All relevant but not what I’d prepared previously.

The above is death by a thousand worksheets.

Any thoughts on how to improve recruitment and retention Clav or just here to goad?

Last year we had very little gain time. Lots of staff sickness due to Covid and other illnesses, lots of supply teacher issues, so most my gain time was lost for covering lessons. Once GCSE classes have left, we then do major assessments for Y7, 8, 9 and 12 which all need marking, then report writing for the end of year.

We then have all the SEN reviews, assessing what worked well for particular kids and things that need putting in place for the following year.

I used the 50 as an average. Some full timers will do 60 in busier terms and 40 in summer term. It depends if you teach A Level which is really intensive and time consuming.

swallowedAfly
Yes it stops in August during our holiday if we are very disciplined and don't work. How much work do you take on holiday with you?

Either you work during the holidays or you don't. You disagreed with my post here;
If they updated schemes of work in 'gained time' they wouldn't need to do much in the summer holidays.

@Balemyking £27000 bursary for computing

Teaching is massively awfully stressful, but I wonder if a lot of the issues might be fixed if funding was increased for schools, not for teacher salaries, but for more TAs, better facilities and better resources.

This is why they are really striking - only they are not legally allowed to strike for this so has to be for salaries in the hope this will improve!🙄 The current pay increase had to come from school budgets - as a result the facilities, resources and TAs are cut to pay for the salary. It doesn't take a genius to work out what impact this has so they teachers want the payrise to be centrally funded (and school funding increased)

Thank you, going to look into it! Xx

No, I answered your question as to why teachers were still working lots of hours in the summer term. A simple thanks would have sufficed if you were genuinely interested in the answer and not just trying to pick at another poster and goad but on you go. You do you.

swallowedAfly
No, I answered your question as to why teachers were still working lots of hours in the summer term.

My complete post is here:
Why are they working 50+ hours a week during the summer term (during/after GCSE and A-Level exams)? If they updated schemes of work in 'gained time' they wouldn't need to do much in the summer holidays

In answer to -
ChickenDhansak82
And all those holidays? Let's do some maths... A full time secondary teacher who does GCSE and A Level will work around 50+ hours a week in term time. In holidays it is exam marking and updating schemes of work, so about 5 hours a week average.

Would you be a better teacher if you worked more during the summer holidays like ChickenDhansak82?