I’ve got no chance against the other side’s Solicitor have I?

[Watchingthetiderollaway]

Sorry not an AIBU, but wanted to post here for hopefully extra responses.

I appealed against a child maintenance decision and a Tribunal hearing has been arranged for just over 3 weeks time. I only found out last week that my ex has got himself a Solicitor, and now I feel defeated already as she’s clearly going to know every legal loophole there is in order to help him win the case.
I can’t afford legal representation and I’m feeling so pissed off that my ex can make out he’s broke to the cms but then be able to afford a Solicitor.

The only way I found out he has a Solicitor is because she contacted me asking me to send her all paperwork that I’m hoping to rely on in the hearing. Has anyone else been in a similar position?

One thing to remember is that the solicitor may be representing the woman in the following case in the court that day before the same judge. They are walking a tightrope because whatever they bring forward in your case may work against them with their next client so that may keep them on a leash. Also the judge will be well aware of men trying to dodge their responsibility to their dc as they will have come across it many times before. They are no fools. Keep everything factual and as far as possible refrain from getting emotional or personal. Make everything about your children and no one can deny that that is fair.

One of my family members represented themselves in court and got on far better than at an earlier hearing where they used a solicitor as they felt their voice was heard.

You will be OK.

I'd be asking for a copy of their letter of retainer as part of disclosure although be prepared he may argue someone else is paying the bill.

Do yourself a favour and write down all the points you want to make.

The Judge will make reasonable accommodations for you.

There's a very helpful Facebook group that might be worth joining- CMS advice. They are understandably careful about who they let in, but it's worth a try?

I know you are already planning to ask for the other side's evidence but it would be good to find a way to see their evidence before you give them anything. someone has to go first and they are the experienced professionals so I think you can politely say "you first" and can then check over what they send before responding, which may be to your advantage. this is an advantage they very much want to keep for themselves obviously but there's no legitimate reason they should have it. presumably if he is hiding his wealth then some of what he submits will be fabricated, and you may be able to prove this. if you are very lucky you may have documentary evidence that shows up a lie, but you won't know what that would be until you see what the lies are.

@Watchingthetiderollaway a Judge will always ensure that a non-represented person gets fair treatment at the court and will make sure you are aware of what is happening at all times, if anything it can often work in your favour to a certain degree as you will be given more leeway.

It is part of the process to exchange documents before a hearing, solicitor has asked you for you yours, and you can ask for whatever documents your ex is relying on. This will give you chance to go over what road he is going down and think of what you want to say in court about that.

You are allowed to have someone with you, so please do look into it if you feel it would help.

Be strong, you can do this x

You need to ask to see the family business accounts for every year since and three years before your marriage breakdown. You need to know how much IS in his directors loan account. He is no doubt drawing the minimum wage and keeping his money in the business to avoid paying. You will need proof that in married life his drawings were significantly more than now. Good luck!

I represented myself at Family Court - mine was over access not finances, but ex's lawyer was hopeless and it definitely didn't give an advantage. The court gave me everything I asked for (although what I was asking wasn't unreasonable).

You're going to need to have some evidence for your allegation though.

As long as you know the ins and outs of your case, you will be fine! You’ll have to be your best advocate. Make sure to ask the judge that your ex provided full disclosure of his dividends and business accounts.

Check online for the court’s email address. under the heading, put in caps !!URGENT LITIGANT IN PERSON HEARING CASE NUMBER XXXX!!”

Your other option is to go in person and speak to a clerk. In your position, I’d be asking for the hearing to be adjourned as you are at significant disadvantage by not having sufficient notice to prepare as a litigant in person.

Also, as you are a LIP, other side’s solicitor needs to provide you with the case bundle.

All of your posts are very helpful, and even though I’m still apprehensive, I’m feeling a bit more confident now thanks to the advice from everyone.

My sister is going to go with me for moral support, which has made me feel less anxious!

I’m glad you were able to get what you asked for, I bet your ex was NOT happy spending out on a lawyer and it proved a waste of his time and money!

Oh as he is a Director, I agree that he can probably hide his money in the business,

Thanks for your post too, very helpful advice!

Just setting off to work now and will be back on here later today.

When my ex business partner left his wife he downplayed what he had by reducing his usual salary and dividends and instead took money as a director's loan.
Be sure to ask for directors loan accounts as well as benefits in kind.

Is his business the sort where cash payments are made? This is the other 'loophole' and if it's a family business they won't want any potential cash earnings/tax fraud being associated

Additionally does anyone else in the family do a similar level job? Does he have a sibling who is also a director so you can compare salaries and benefits if he tries claiming wages have dropped due to covid?

Oh and pension account, be sure to check what he's squirreling away in a pension account tax free instead of contributing towards his children as well as company contributions

Firstly have you looked at legal aid? Im sure you can claim this for child support.

Friends just been through this and the first hearing is a fact finding hearing where solitons are asked to provide anything that has been missed before the actual court date.

You need to provide a list of your incoming and outgoings - plus list the extras - shoes clothes clubs etc

It should be based on your children - I believe there is a list document somewhere to complete.

This is truly terrible advice (solicitor here)

The court will look at that as you being shady and unreasonable. It's totally normal to share your evidence with the other side in advance (in virtually every adversarial legal setting). The day in court/tribunal goes a lot more productively if everyone knows what they're actually arguing about!

She will be fair and as some have said the courts/tribunal service tend to be a bit more lenient on those representing themselves. That's in terms of procedure and paperwork. You still have to behave like a grown up and be honest etc.

It likely will be better than negotiating with him directly as she's a professional but yes she will know the law well and is obliged to do the best for her client. That being said she won't be willing to break the law/rules for him so in theory it should be a fair settlement

Check out whether there's a process whereby you can make applications to the court and, if so, how it works. If so, make an application for an order for him to provide copies of all relevant bank and Building Society statements and any other documents you think he has been withholding.

If he’s a director have you checked companies house, accounts have to be filed annually showing turnover, dividends paid etc. also any shares held in the company are listed - it may be that he is hoping to show a low salary as is being paid in dividends so it’s worth a look as you just need the company name.

This. The tribunal will be totally unimpressed with attempts to spring surprises or keep any of your evidence away from the solicitor.

I agree with @tirednewmumm

There are so many inaccuracies in this thread 🤦‍♀️

Disclosure obligations apply to both parties when court ordered - and this includes documents that adversely/negatively affect your own clients case. You/he still have/has to disclose them. If there is anything you think should have been disclosed then write to the solicitor and ask for it. (You aren’t entitled to a copy of their retainer as that’s privileged)

Judges will take extra time to explain the law and proceedings to unrepresented parties and the SRA requires solicitors to behave well towards unrepresented parties by not being oppressive or heavy handed, by explaining the basic legal position and by recommending that they seek legal advice if they are unsure.

You’re also required to cooperate which in practice means copying your disclosure to the solicitor representing your ex. Frankly hearings run far more efficiently when both parties work together and actively cooperate. If they’re going to be sent the documents anyway, why not just copy them in? I presume that this is written into whichever civil procedure rules governs the tribunal anyway (it’s certainly in the employment tribunal rules which is my area of law) and in the nicest way, being deliberately obstructive isn’t going to help you and may actually get the judges back up!

Then she can provide it to the tribunal.

This. Remind yourself of this every single day. My exhusband left 26 years ago. The children were 3 and 2. He argued over every penny . He was 32 and had got himself a 17 year old girlfriend. It was more important to impress her/ buy her stuff than it was to pay what he was supposed to to our children.I went back to work to support us. It was the hardest time of my life but my children are now adults and we are very close. They no longer bother with their father. His second wife is currently divorcing him and the teenage child from that relationship is also NC with him. Be strong, be unemotional ( that's the hardest bit) take a friend if you can and do your homework. Your children will see, and they will remember, the stress caused to their mother by their father.

You'll be fine, I won a case against a barrister my ex hired to try and intimidate me.
Just have your facts there, your financial records and what you want.
The judge will be sympthetic towards you for not having a solicitor.
A solicitor does not have the ability to sway a judge, they assess the case on facts.
Your exH is a shit by the way.

'Good point, he’ll probably lie and say his family paid for him though.'

That could be the truth.

Family courts aren't usually overly impressed by one side coming in with big guns blazing, it, unequal sides makes it more complicated. So it certainly won't be a case of them being impressed by some lawyer, or letting him off on loop-holes.
They'll be thinking about what's fair, and what's best for the kids