To think that allowances should be made for mental health conditions and neurodiversity in the workplace?

[FromTheSoul]

I have complex mental health problems and am ND. These things are known about at my place of work but I don't think allowances or considerations are made in the same way they would for a physical illness perhaps. Even though many mental health conditions can also present physically.

I feel like when you say to someone that you suffer with anxiety, SOME people will not take it seriously or will be dismissive. At my workplace I've told a couple of trusted people how bad my mental health can be. For example, recently it's been very bad. I've lost weight, had to increase my meds, seen a private psychiatrist. I have a mix of health anxiety, ocd, ptsd, pnd and a history of panic attacks. As well as that I'm neurodiverse. These things have been clinically assessed which my medical notes will show. So it's not just anxiety at a lower level, mine can be severe.

Up until the last couple of years, post having my children, I've masked these problems at work but it's become harder to do that. I feel that I can do my job, I want to do my job but every so often, I might need allowances to be made. But does this mean I have to let everyone know? I don't really feel comfortable with that. As it is, I have about 5 people at work that know. I also don't want management thinking I'm not up to doing my job because I can do it.

I don't want to say what the type of workplace this is as it could be outing. But the pressure is on in the type of work.

But I just wonder if mental health and ND was better known about (still!... in 2023) and considered in the workplace generally, then things would be different.

Thank you, @Greatly .

Below 3 adjustments were mentioned on another thread, and seem reasonable to me for any employee with chronic illness. Are these the types of things you want, OP?

...able to expect to work flexibly unless clearly not possible in that role, eg., If <condition> led to a poor nights sleep you can start later and make the time up.
... Health care plan covers medical consultation to get the right treatment
... Absences aren't immediately counted towards the permitted 3 absences in a rolling year.

Elsewhere (I have read & ) I wonder if these other policies also are what would suit?
.. policy of respectful sympathy from management & colleagues
... ability to approach occupational health about any workplace aspects that exacerbate symptoms; culture of documenting the requests and outcomes
... culture to be safe to talk about it openly
.. but also opportunity to discuss needs privately & in confidentiality
... documented outcomes (from management) from requests for adjustments
... preventing excess workload
... being given adequate time to eat & drink, keep hydrated
... generally comfortable environment (ventilation, temperature, etc)
... prevent bullying/harrassment/stigma re the condition
... potentially counselling either within organisation or support to access it outside organisation

I'm still reeling from the poster who was arbitrarily made a colleague's support human. 🤯

I know! What if they'd quit or wanted to go on holiday?

The thing is, most people don’t find other people’s health conditions very interesting. Most people also have extremely tough times in their lives and their own health issues. I think people are sympathetic but don’t necessarily have the time or headspace to deal with other people’s problems.

I think this needs to go through HR I’ve had someone tell me they struggle with mental health and are struggling to do xyz. As a person I am sympathetic and want you to feel well. As a colleague I can’t unilaterally take by on parts of your role unless instructed by a manager. It’ll take time away from the stuff I’m supposed to be doing. You don’t have to tell everyone you have to tell the right people so you can get support.

This is another really valid point.

I don’t think it’s particularly fair to go into work and essentially trauma-dump all your problems onto a colleague. It’s one thing if you and x colleague are really close in and out of work and have that sort of friendship. You know a friendship where you often meet up for shopping/coffee/meals, go away on holiday together, etc.

However, it’s entirely another thing altogether if you and x colleague simply work together and get on “well” in a work capacity only.

One thing I’ve became wise to is life is tough for everyone, and lots of people are dealing with really challenging issues outside of work (grief, breakdowns of serious relationships, health issues, child-related issues pertaining to illnesses, disabilities etc, substantial money worries and debt, etc). The vast majority of people tend to keep these issues private in work, but they’ve still got a lot on their plate.

They really don’t need to know about your struggles in that much detail, especially if it’s mentioned several times. They do not have the mental capacity to support you, nor should they have to.

If you have significant struggles you need to discuss these with your manager in regards to how it affects your work, HR and OH. No one else needs to know every single detail. That needs to be kept for your family/friends/therapist’s support network outside of work.

It can also create a really unpleasant work environment. People may be less keen to talk to you as they don’t have the capacity to deal with what you’re telling them. People may, in some circumstances, see you telling them private information as you setting them up for when they end up needing to take on your workload, etc.

It’s always better to just keep these sort of conversations for those who have a deeper relationship with yourself, and to those who can do something to help in regards to work. Your manager can set something up with HR and OH to get you the support you need, a random colleague can’t do anything.

I agree that being as specific as possible about your required "adjustments" is critical. In my experience workplaces will go a reasonable way to meet you on these if you over-compensate in other areas but if you use MH issues or ND as a get out of jail free card in a way which impacts on others it becomes quite a burden.

Two examples from my firm: one senior colleague who suffers from severe social anxiety. It's a bit of a handicap in some respects as being social is a big aspect of the job. But she hugely overcompensates in other areas: brilliant at written work, organisation, project management and managing internal aspects of the job and gets on well with colleagues. It's accepted that she is cut a lot of slack on physical meetings and social things (although she is required to do a bit) and works from home most of the time. It's recognised that she is so useful in a "back office" function that this more than compensates for her shortcomings in the "meet and greet" part of the job. It works for everyone and she's been promoted consistently.

Another colleague who has periodic mental health flare-ups (mostly underpinned by her alcohol consumption), will every few months take a few days off sick and tell managers she is having a mental health episode and wants "adjustments", which usually boil down to several days off followed by working very short days and a much lighter workload for a further few days. It creates resentment among staff when she periodically goes off for days on sick leave as it causes havoc and frequently leaves other people having to step in and cover her workload.

Everyone is sympathetic and understands that she gets into bad places but there seems to be a lack of focus and specificity on her part (not to mention a reluctance to tackle the problem). It's a small firm and there isn't any HR or occupational health function so it's left to management to figure out and its difficult for colleagues to carry someone who every couple of months will just disappear off the face of the earth.

She has not really advanced in her job for 6 or 7 years. I can't know for certain why but I can't help noticing the difference.

I think going in with a very clear eye to what you need to enable you to do your job and a sense of how this impacts on others is a smart way to approach this. Very few people begrudge people having adjustments made for MH issues if they are done in a way which creates minimal impact but if it seems to be used as a cover story for poor performance it creates massive resentment.

I still would be her support human but I took October half term off as annual leave, she rang in sick (as she always does when I'm on holiday) and she hasn't been back since! Signed off with stress and anxiety and just keeps renewing the doctor's note every two weeks. The atmosphere at work is great at the moment.

Must be difficult for doctors as I assume they can't deny people a sick note for stress and anxiety (I know it's not actually called a sick note), but two weeks at a time suggests to me that the doctor thinks she should really get back to work.

She's 100% in the wrong job.

In that scenario, employees really need to be honest enough to admit it to themselves and apply elsewhere / resign. Managers and HR won't suggest it nowadays.

Agree with majority of this post **Elsewhere (I have read & ) I wonder if these other policies also are what would suit?

.. policy of respectful sympathy from management & colleagues

... culture to be safe to talk about it openly

.. but also opportunity to discuss needs privately & in confidentiality**

But will this not heavily lean on people's colleagues,
and its very ambiguous.

What does 'respectful sympathy' mean as this will be interpreted differently by different people

Also re the culture to talk about it openly and privately, who with? Should people's colleagues be compelled to speak or listen about others health?

Not meaning to quiz you but thinking of example above with the man who wanted a colleague as a support human!

Going to private therapy every week or two for months last year (in the evenings to fit around work) was quite expensive (£35 a session) but meant I kept my issues out of work.

While people disclosing having a condition is fine, I don't want to hear about triggering stuff or provide a load of emotional support on top of my role and most people don't either.

I already have a job where I speak daily to people in distress (debt, mental health issues, bereavement etc) so outside of the role I now advise most people I know socially to speak to their GP if they bring up feeling depressed, suicidal or drinking too much. I'll listen, but I'm not getting into the informal role of therapist with them.

This is very true. Apart from my own family and friends I am not interested in anyone else's personal issues. I think a great deal of us are run ragged in our own lives trying to manage everything while clinging to our own sanity by our fingernails.

I don't dislike my colleagues but the relationship is purely circumstantial and I just want us all to do our jobs, be pleasant and friendly to each other and then go home at the end of the day. I don't bring my issues to work to affect other people and I want my colleagues to do the same.

I am in my late 40s though so quite tired and jaded. Also menopausal so very few shits left to give. When I was in my teens and twenties my colleagues were some of my very best friends, and I am still in touch with some of them now.

Unless someone is in a position of responsibility (i.e. a manager) or has a designated role (like a mental health first aider) then it is totally inappropriate for that person to be required to provide support for a colleagues's mental health issues. Even with those designated roles there needs to be a support network in place to support those who are in those roles as they are not mental health professionals. Over COVID I've seen significant impacts on the mental health of managers and designated mental health champions and first aiders due to a lack of proper support for them whilst they were dealing with a lot of colleagues' mental health issues.

As a manager I have supported a number of colleagues with mental health issues and a key part of that support is ensuring they get the right help they need outside work as far as is possible from healthcare professionals and counselling services. Reasonable adjustments can be made around working patterns, types of tasks undertaken, how work is undertaken, etc. and on rare occasions that may require letting other teammates know (with permission) pertinent details to support changes in working practices. However that has to be reasonable in that it mustn't mean excessive workloads for others, putting others in positions where they are uncomfortable, lack training etc., work is still being effectively completed, employees are taking reasonable agreed steps to self-manage their condition, etc. If after attempts to do this the individual is still not able to work effectively then they probably shouldn't be at work and then we move into long term sickness and how that is dealt with.

Reasonable adjustments can and absolutely should be made. A manager and HR can assist with this.

I teach and supported a team member last year who had mental health issues. I and HR did everything we could to support, he went through therapy and thankfully, stabilised.

The issue we had and I suspect others would find, is what would happen in the long term. For instance, as mornings were problematic for him, I sometimes covered his form group and/or P1 if I was free. Timetabling meant we couldn't guarantee that long term and it also wasn't sustainable for someone to do it long term.

So, while I absolutely agree that those with mental health issues should be supported, there is a balance to be struck- the organisation needs to be able to function.

So the organisation functioned because you - a woman I assume - picked up the slack.

I think as a short term thing allowances should be made. But long term no I don't think a business can do this without burdening other workers who may themselves become stressed through extra workload.

Yes, another load of unpaid female labour.

What does 'respectful sympathy' mean

I was paraphrasing other policy documents, tbf. They didn't use those exact words but I was trying to understand the words they did use (which I didn't understand as originally written, obviously).

I think the gist of what they were saying was something to do with letting the unwell person feel they didn't have to hide their condition away, that they could mention their condition without attracting stigma. The work peer would listen without making the unwell person feel ashamed,and not expected to fix that person, either. Not about picking up slack for them, just letting the speaker feel accepted.

I agree it's all a bit fuzzy & I don't want to be burdened with other people's chronic issues, either.

I think designating someone as a 'mental first aider' is a fucking awful idea. I have a counselling qualification and I'd keep that quiet if I knew my organisation was looking for someone to do this. At least medical first aiders can ring an ambulance!

Being blunt here; none of your colleagues, manager or HR will know what to do to help. You need to be highly specific about exactly what accommodations will help you to achieve in your role. Once you are clear about how you can be helped and in what circumstances this help should kick in, you will be better placed to request an HR conversation. They can then get occupational health to work with you to refine the detail and assist with communication.

For example; "When I am anxious, I get stressed by the reminders about the team report." Accommodation = 9am-9.30am Thursdays in my calendar will be blocked to do the team report each week so that I finish before reminders get sent. Manager is made aware that time sensitive work is stressful, so will support keeping that 30 min blocked to complete time sensitive task early.

The trouble is sometimes people are made stressed/ have mh impacted by the job that they are doing, then expect the job to adapt to them.
Eg. Teaching workload exacerbates my stress.
Badly behaved kids make me stressed.
Noise and chaos makes me stressed.
Constant change make me stressed.
I'm going off with stress.

Teaching is well known for being a stressful job, yet people with fragile MH still come into the job and expect to have allowances made.

But then, those colleagues who are more resilient are still there.... only now their workload has increased and they are more stressed. But they take it out on their families or just burn out and leave

I think it's really difficult. I've worked somewhere where someone moved to a more senior position but then asked for an adjustment along the lines of what someone had mentioned above - "having a manager break down complex tasks into smaller chunks" - but being able to work autonomously without a lot of manager input was the main difference between a junior and senior role. Effectively the adjustment would have resulted in someone being paid a senior salary but working like a junior.

I agree with needing to speak up to get adjustments not expecting mind reading. It may be useful being in a union anyway. They may also be able to suggest adjustments you have nit considered or that your/similar work places have agreed to.

it is really hard but also sometimes need to brush stuff off as management may sometimes adjust properly but only grudgingly.
I had a couple of periods of MH sickness one year asked for and had adjustments. All fine as far as I knew. There was a yearly pay increment. I was called into see the boss to say that they fully accepted that my sick leave was genuine and I’d get the increase, but if they had thought it was feigned/false I wouldn’t have had the increase.

Allowances are not made for physical disabilities. I have the same outputs and same expectations of me as an employee as every other employee.