To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

[janef001]

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

There are also many people, like me, who have suffered mental ill health and suicidal ideation as part of their illness. However, treatments are available and many people go on to recover, to lead healthy and happy lives full of meaning.

It fills me with horror to imagine someone in my situation being assisted to kill themselves rather than offered effective treatment.

Kevin Hines survived a suicide attempt and now teaches about his story of recovery. Some great resources on his website for anyone feeling hopeless today. His slogan is "Be here tomorrow." x

www.kevinhinesstory.com

This is what I agree with. I completely believe in assisted dying for people in pain/terminally ill.
I've been in hospital when they couldn't control my pain and that cemented that thought even though I was already in favour.
I however don't trust that the safeguarding is as good as it should be and wonder if it will turn into a way to get rid of people with mental illness rather than help treat them.

No offence but there are plenty of ways to do that if it's what you really want
Sure they are. You can hang yourself, get splattered by jumping off a bridge or in front of a car. Even shoot yourself in the face, as a couple of options. Why is it OK to do any of these, but not a controlled suicide?

Why let dignity get in the way? Or an option to have a less traumatic death which reduces the changes of things going wrong. Of course, all of the above options do lead to innocent people finding bodies or parts, and being severely affected for the rest of their lives. Collateral damage I guess.

You don’t think it’s exploitative that the government are jumping in to kill people because their life is difficult? There are people who have been offered MAID because they’re poor, or in a bad place in their life, or because their trans surgery went wrong.

Instead of being given help, they’re just offered death. What about when it’s your loved one? What about if they could have improved their life? I wanted to die when I was young, now I am pretty happy and glad I’m still here. Death doesn’t just affect the person whose died, it has ripple affects.

I’m all for humane euthanasia of terminally ill people with no quality of life or in extreme pain but expanding it in this way is beyond a slippery slope. Not to mention they’re looking to expand it to ‘mature minors’ without parental consent. Do you understand how dystopian and fucked up that is?

Because it’s a lot harder to get the courage to do these things to yourself than apply to the government for a humane death.

There are some stories out there already. The application has been made easier than you think, much like some other things with long term consequences

There are some stories out there already. The application has been made easier than you think, much like some other things with long term consequences

@TootHole you see dignity, I see a government keen to find a cheap way to "solve" a complex health need.

The govt are not jumping in to kill people. Unless you are suggesting people are actually being given no choice and just being told they are going to have their life ended. Massive over exaggeration doesn’t help anyone in this debate.

I guess the main problem is that people with mental health issues can be coerced more easily into saying they want to die if someone's wants to be rid of them. You don't want mental health facilities feeding this as an option either.

But. I think we all have the right to die if we choose to. And we shouldn't have to be alone and afraid and die painfully if there could be a kinder option.

The govt are not jumping in to kill people. Unless you are suggesting people are actually being given no choice and just being told they are going to have their life ended. Massive over exaggeration doesn’t help anyone in this debate.

Not offering support or alternative options to people to help them improve their lives does amount to no choice for vulnerable and desperate people imo.

@TootHole your post is disgusting and I can only assume you have never felt suicidal.

There are no easy ways to kill yourself.

With the government we have at the moment, it really isn't much of a stretch to imagine them pushing this. The Scottish government want to bring in assisted dying this year. It's so obviously beneficial to those in charge of the difficult practicalities of the care of the elderly, the disabled and those in ill health, post-Brexit (a lack of care workers) and with a growing elderly population. And remember that these people are in control of the money. If it's not spent on the care of the elderly, then it's easier for them to spend money on their own priorities or to divert it to their cronies (as happened in a very big way during Covid).
And it's so obvious that some individuals would be pressurised by their families to die early. Very elderly people who see no-one except their adult children and may completely depend on them. The same adult children who stand to inherit. Those at risk from this kind of law are those who are most vulnerable to this kind of pressure.

To be honest, I think people should be allowed to choose to die if their quality of life is poor. Mental illness definitely contributes to poor quality of life. If other avenues of help are readily available and don't work, this is a humane option.

We don't choose to be born. We are all going to die someday. Why force someone to live in pain when they don't want to?

"We concluded that it was virtually impossible to ensure that all acts of euthanasia were truly voluntary and that any liberalisation of the law in the United Kingdom could not be abused.
We were also concerned that vulnerable people - the elderly, lonely, sick or distressed - would feel pressure, whether real or imagined, to request early death."
Lord Walton, Chairman, House of Lords Select Committee on Medical Ethics looking into euthanasia, 1993

Lots of arguments for and against are looked at here:
www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/euthanasia/against/against_1.shtml

100%

Why should we be forced to go on living ?

I was really down on New Years Eve with fireworks and celebrations and my kids dancing around going on about another year starting. I just felt like „oh god another year“ and was filled with sadness.

Would prefer not to have to do a shock suicide but to have support and a process and have that be an acceptable choice I can make.

the second pathway is when the illness is considered by at least two health care professionals to be grievous and irremediable

This is misplaced faith in some magical and purely objective ability of ‘two healthcare professionals’ who are able to mythically understand the past and future of an individual.

Tainted blood? Maternity and newborn deaths? Thalidomide? Breast implants? Unnecessary surgery? The response to medical scandals is all too often a cover up. It is so surprising that 2/3rds of posters think this is okay. This will be another scandal brewing in 10 years time.

Healthcare scandals and the failings of doctors

healthcare scandals: crime and punishment

www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2018/12/10/shame-scandal/

This is an important message. I’ve been involved in the care of people who attempted suicide and were so so grateful that the attempt failed.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so sorry that you feel this way

this

This is BS and I don't think you have any idea how Dementia works. She was in the latter stages of dementia and had lost capacity , probably if you asked her she would have forgotten 2 seconds later what the question was . She requested this when she had capacity and was sound of mind. The Dutch high court have approved late stage euthanasia for dementia for when you have lost capacity and I'm so grateful. Many people with dementia effectively starve to death as they forget to eat and swallow..
This is probably my fate as it will be the number 1 cause of death for women and I don't want my death to be like that.

I hope the law changes when I get elderly , when you take an animal to the vets they fight and don't want it but we still do it because it's in their best interests.

You clearly haven't read any of my posts.
It was a flippant response to someone who thinks assisted suicide isn't needed, and there are plenty of ways to kill yourself if you really wanted to.