Driving myself mad, should I move back up north or not?

[Led92]

I’ve been in the south East for 15 years for work but I grew up up north. My siblings and parents are there.

We have a nice house in a nice area, with green spaces and good schools. There’s lots of clubs and activities for my 3 children and my eldest DD started a nice school this September.

My dh is now full time wfh and I have a meeting next week with my boss to discuss going formally to 2 days a month in the office when I return from maternity leave. Same pattern as him and what I was doing before maternity leave anyway. However it would limit my promotion opportunities as generally the more senior you are the more you need to be in the office.

It would mean we’d have an opportunity to move back up north. I’ve thought about it for years as I’m quite lonely here despite clubs and parties keeping us busy. I keep thinking about it. I’m a lot happier when I’m with family.

but… if they weren’t there I wouldn’t be moving back, the area is nice but it’s a bit dead. My siblings and I all moved away for work and are only able to make our way back through flexible working. I feel guilty taking my DD’s away from the south east, there’s so much going on here.

Also I don’t have savings spare for the stamp duty etc so we’d have to take £30K
out of the sale of the house to cover stamp duty, legal work and moving costs which seems like such a waste of money.

The disruption, money, impact on my job all seem significant but… you only get one life? DH is up for it if we could find the right house. And we’re up for February half term to see how it feels in an air bnb close to my sister.

What would you do?

yabu: forget the hassle, stay where you are and go up for holidays!

yanbu; move, you only live once.

It would be nice for you but it might limit the options for your children now and in the future.

We had a similar issue a long time ago now but ultimately decided to stay where we were and didn't regret it. I could go back 'home' now if I wanted to but I'm not going to.

Go for it. I want to move back to East Anglia nearer my family.

Moved home to NI about 7 years ago from London. We were there for 5 years but always intended on moving home to start a family. London and SE of England to me is pretty insular and unaffordable with a family/commuting into City. Its probably great if you are from there and have family already living around that area. NI has lots of problems but I always wanted my children to be brought up surrounded by my family, not just at Christmas and a week in the summer holidays. Additionally I wanted them to have a similar sense of humour and culture to myself and my husband that comes from growing up here. Before the CoL crisis it was definitely cheaper but now everything is expensive everywhere.

I don't regret it at all, we ended up in totally different jobs and are much happier. I think it matters alot what you want for your family. I don't think it's the end of the world if kids are bored. I think if anything they need more opportunity to be bored these days. Today, my DD is off creche ill for 3rd day in a row and my Mum was able to get out of work and watch her for an hour briefly while I attended an important meeting. The Sunday you have described is pretty much our usual. It definitely takes a village and a lot of the support like this makes it all worthwhile to me.

That’s another concern for me… I have no idea how my DD’s will afford to buy around where we live now. We bought 8 years ago, if we had waited a year we would’ve been priced out of the area. And we have good jobs!!

Hopefully with more hybrid working they might be able to have more options on where to live but I find the ‘first home’ prices up north more reasonable than the South East if we moved and they wanted to stay there. And I don’t want my kids to be long term renters because I have experienced myself how unstable that can be renting in my twenties. Also England just rubbish for renters rights.

February half term might make it really clear to me one way or another, if not I’ll take more time to think about it and wherever we are Jan 2025 is where we stay.
I do miss the more friendly and relaxed banter of the North though, I know it’s a cliche but it really is true. Tesco cashier basically got the names and ages of all my DD’s last time I was up there and was so friendly!

I have a school friend in north London going through the exact same problem. She’s not too far away really but it’s over an hour of hard going congested driving if we wanted to meet up! Booo.

@Led92 did you see my post above about house prices and school options?

I did, with a husband and 4 kids 17 years ago and haven't looked back. Kids are now adults, 3 have flown the nest and moved away plus I'm divorced. Coming back was the best decision ever.

One question you may find silly, is what accent do your children have?

I had a southern accent in a northern primary school and was bullied for it. It's apparently "posh" and no, as I've been told here, it wasn't meant in a nice friendly banter way. It was definitely nasty.
I've a friend who at a different primary was bullied to the point she went mute for two years for the same reason. She's not the shy and retiring sort naturally, so it wasn't that she was easy to upset.

I think it's easy to look at family and think how nice it would be, but the reality doesn't always match the potential. We went round to my grandparents once a week for Sunday tea. I only now realise that my parents found this quite tying, for example.
Two of my cousins moved closer with the thought that their children would be in and out of each other's houses and brought up together, and have found they actually spent better time together when they were 200 miles apart because they would go and stay regularly.

Think about it before you go.

Heya do you mean about Bebington and Wirral grammars? Yes I saw that and thank you very much. I don’t know Bebington or Wirral grammars well but something to consider!! Also I don’t pretend to know current to do things on Wirral but my teenage years were walks watching tv at home or working, but we didn’t have money for much else!
Is your point Bebington better value for money regards houses?

Will do thank you!
My kids still talk pretty kid like. Also I’m from the Wirral and when I say I’m from merseyside the first thing anyone says is “oh you’ve lost your accent”, not not really just the accent isn’t very strong I find on the west side of the Wirral.
Only the flat A’s and U’s noticeable as northern really. My eldest DD’s say A as in ey and not ah, but otherwise pretty much sound like their cousins.

We are on the verge of moving back to where I grew up. I live in a great place now but after years here, I've not really made any proper friends. Lots of school parent friends etc. but no-one I really consider a good friend. My partner said recently, do we really want to be here when the kids have left home (a while yet) and it hit me that I don't so we're moving back. I have my misgivings but ultimately, I want my family and friends around me. Good luck with it all.

Would you be ok with loving far away from your daughters when they get to adulthood?

It sounds like they'd be moving away just like you did.

Oh crap ‘do you really want to be here when the kids have left home’ is a bit stark. I can safely say no I don’t want to live the rest of my life in this house.
but…..
”are you okay with living so far away from your daughters when they get to adulthood.” No… but I wouldn’t rule out another move when our kids have grown up and settled somewhere. Unless they were all over England then I’d be screwed!

it’s not about the area really but about the family and friends around.

The only thing I think is would I become a ‘support actor’ in my sisters family rather than the lead in my own.
And this is why and how I overthink everything!!!!

DH is from the south (lived in lots of areas) and I am a northerner. After to-ing and fro-ing we moved to close to my hometown in Yorkshire and we are settled here with our family. DH works remotely (has done well before Covid) for a southern-based office.

We have very young kids and having my parents nearby to do ad-hoc babysitting/having my eldest for sleepovers has made things much easier. It’s also a good area for working families, easy commuter belt, good schools, good proximity to the regional cities but also close to countryside. It’s also affordable, although prices have risen in the last couple of years.

I lived in the South East for a short period, and whilst I mostly enjoyed the change I was happier settling up north. I found that the South East was a lovely place to live if you were very wealthy, but middle earners like us would have a better comparable lifestyle in the north- and it’s where I would choose to raise a family.

That said, I found both maternity leaves a bit isolating so maybe see how you feel once you return to work.

WRT the comments about staying in the SE so the children have better employment opportunities- it works both ways. I could see my children being able to save up for the deposit on a house in the north, but SE would be a much bigger stretch.

@Led92, yes, that was what I was trying to say. Tbh, pretty much anywhere on the Wirral is better value for money than Heswall, Gayton or Caldy, but it rather depends on your budget and what size of house / garden you are looking for. Houses on the Dee side tend to be bigger and on bigger plots of land, but you pay for that, especially if you want the views across to Wales.

just an example - these are both very much within walking distance from the two Wirral Grammar Schools, obviously not sure what your budget might be.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130001738#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130520102#/?channel=RES_BUY

anyway, good luck with your decision and enjoy your half term break either way!

PS the Eureka science museum has just opened at Seacombe Ferry if you are looking for something to do and the weather isn’t great for your visit

Thanks!

Will check that out, have rough plans to go to tam o shanters farm and a toddler group in the week too!

Actually remember my brother going to the oval and another time taking us to the lady Leverhulme art gallery.

In general regards house prices in south east… it was tricky for us as at the time we both worked in the office 4-5 days a week. It limited us to within the m25 and with our budget only a few places we liked.
With my DD’s I’m hoping with hybrid working they’ll be able to spread their net wider. Also my grandparents on both sides never owned their homes but my DD’s do, I know they’re ultimately set to get a bit of inheritance from that (not a nice thing at all but highlighting they might be in a different financial position to me).

Do it! I moved back to Merseyside a couple of years ago and have never regretted it - it's the best decision I've ever made. We live about 25 minutes from my parents, in a nicer area with better schools. Our quality of life is so much better here, and we can afford to work less.

If you're nervous about house prices in Heswall/West Kirby, why not look towards Meols/Hoylake - or indeed, how about living over the water? Crosby, Formby and Birkdale are all lovely, and have regular train and bus services into Liverpool so your children can have some independence when older.

This might be the type of house we go for but hmmm.
council tax band F doubles our council tax paying now so another £125 (such a high band given the much bigger houses in that area!), it’ll be more expensive to heat (is it double glazed?) so say another £150 and then assuming I can get advance tickets commute to London is £250 a month. So £525 extra a month!
Expecting a bit of a pay rise of about £200 but still that’s quite a whack alongside our childcare bill!

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130924580?utm_content=v2-ealertspropertyimage&utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailupdates&utm_campaign=emailupdates1day&utm_term=buying&sc_id=44572216&onetime_FromEmail=true&cid=2d7c40e6-7162-4fcc-98f3-1bdf79d0c7be&csg=35e7125896645364797b77fe47220dc8e5e7e45233408242befd1a0b3c21d0cb#/?channel=RES_BUY

Lovely house though….. our current garden about 30 metres squared, those gardens so lovely and I know the lower Heswall area is lovely.

Certainly doesn’t look double glazed and that’s a lot of windows to replace.

If you're worried about the cost, you don't need to buy a period property in Heswall. Plenty of 4 bedroom houses in West Kirby for under £500k.

I came back to my home town after years of feeling displaced. Its not the same and I'm only really good friends with one person from school. My family moved away.
But I feel settled which I never did before plus its in the south east so loads to do.
Home is where the heart is though.
Personally Liverpool is fabulous

I grew up in the north east but moved away in 2001 for work in the south, thinking I'd be away a couple of years, get some experience, and then move back to the north. In practice it has taken over 20 years to get back to the north, it's the wrong side of the Pennines for me, and the north is a totally different world to the one I remember, despite having visited regularly over the years and living here briefly just over 20 years ago.

Any financial advantage is diminishing daily. Property and rents are rapidly catching up with the south, energy and fuel are just as pricey as down south and food isn't much cheaper.

The hospital and healthcare system is much worse (partly due to the shockingly unhealthy lifestyles but also the high levels of poverty, criminal lack of investment from central government for the last 13 years in particular, and low levels of education and aspiration. We've had to keep our dentists down south as NHS dentists up here are rarer than unicorns.

From a work perspective, I don't think I've ever seen such rampant cronyism when it comes to jobs as I've seen here. And though I'm a socialist through and through, if I'd grown up in our current location, I'd probably also vow never to vote Labour (though they're all in for a shock if they think the Tories are going to be better).

We've been here 6 months now, I'm going to give it a year and then make a decision about whether we cut our losses and go back, or accept that I'll have to drop 2 or 3 grades to move back to the north east before I retire.

Just seen it's the Wirral you're looking at - bear in mind that many of those 40-minute buses to help get your kids into Liverpool or Chester may not turn up or entire services may even be cancelled, get snarled up in traffic that has to be seen to be believed, and taking the train anywhere in the north west right now is a gamble every single time. If you drive, factor in changing your tyres regularly as the potholes are something else.

For the record, I really like the Liverpool area and have always found the people much friendlier and nicer than where we are currently, to the north of the Greater Manchester bit. (That's not changed in 20 years.) We sometimes joke that we evidently missed the sign on the M6 that said "Welcome to 1979...."

Good luck, whatever you decide.

It’d be a no brainier for me, I’d be gone back to the Wirral.

I appreciate we’re all different but you couldn’t pay me to live in the south east, cramped, congested, expensive, so busy.

You say your children will probably end up moving for job opportunities but surely that really depends on what they do? They could be nurses, accountants, solicitors, beauticians, teachers, drs etc and there’s no reason why any of those jobs wouldn’t be available in any of the cities near to you. I think London and the south east is necessary for certain types of jobs but you have no idea that your children are going to be doing those types of jobs.

If your sister is your best friend and you enjoy being close to and seeing family too then that would make my decision.

If you don’t want to commit fully yet, could you rent for 6-12 months and rent your house out?

Having a bigger house/ garden, more space etc would also be a big pull for me, space makes everything easier IME.

Just on the house price I have to port my mortgage or pay a £17,000 (and falling) overpayment fee. The minimum value of house I can port for is £570k. Also my mortgage is 2.2% for next 4.5 years so I want to keep that deal! So we have to look at houses £570k plus or pay stamp duty and overpayment charge on a lower value house, don’t see the point of that.

The services are an issue for me, I have an NHS dentist and GP and no complaints about them. My family certainly have their complaints about Wirral services. My sister moved back 18 months ago and still doesn’t have an NHS dentist and my parents struggle for GP appts even by phone.

Pretty confident in the bus routes I’m talking about, they go through busy towns.
but I take your point about the trains however my local train provider has just changed their timetable and reduced services due to lack of use ??!!! Now it’s back to cattle class and watching full trains go by until one comes you can actually get on. Think trains are screwed everywhere.

The issue for me is how much extra the costs are a month, commuting at £250 I was hoping would mostly get mopped up by a pay rise (!! :s) but the council tax and extra heating costs of a bigger house is significant. It’s costing us our big summer holiday a year and I can’t see it improving as even when my childcare costs are lower I will need to swap my car out then (it’ll be getting on for 7 years plus by then). Which will need to mainly go on some sort of finance.
Quite a lot of cons building up.. it will be interesting to see if the family ties outweigh them!

Sorry just to say I can’t rent out as 1) mortgage won’t allow it and 2) I can’t lose my DD place at the primary opposite us. We’d never get back in if we moved back it’s horribly oversubscribed.